There's at least one Christian slogan that I'd like to see retired. Handy sayings are sometimes used to convey a certain truth in a simple way; but too often the slogan ends up being so simple that it actually conveys a falsehood. One of these is "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner." I understand the truth of grace that is the attempt here, but it is actually not what the Bible says.
Psalm 5:5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity."
Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things which the Lord hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, a false witness who utters lies....
The Proverbs passage lists parts of people and culminates in a false witness - it's talking about people, not just the actions they commit.
And these passages can't be explained away as the Old Covenant, because they do establish the fact that God hates sinners. The New Covenant, thank God, offers a way to receive God's love. But the state of a sinner is a terrible, fearful thing. In our good desire to express the grace of God, we must still allow the weight of the law and God's hared to bring about the repentance that is necessary for a new relationship with God.
Let's retire the inaccurate slogans, and accurately express a Biblical message.
Well I certainly agree with you that ‘sin’ is a bad place to be, indeed Jesus said:
“If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.”
And “...everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.”
Also, clearly the Law has a lot of merit in the New Covenant for:
“What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”” Romans 7:7
But, the point of that phrase is to explain Grace, and you haven’t offered an alternative. Clearly God does love the sinner based on how Jesus eat, drank and hung out all the time with ‘tax collectors and sinners.’
Posted by: Justin | January 18, 2006 at 10:22 AM
Well, compare with Matthew 5:43-48, where Jesus uses the Father as a role model in loving our enemies. There is clearly a paradox here...I'll have to study up on it some more, though I suspect this has to do with God's particular love in election vs. His general love for all His creation.
Posted by: Red Loser | January 18, 2006 at 11:00 AM
Sinners who have not accepted Jesus in there life are dead to the spirt and have no free will to choose.
Those who have accepted Jesus as there redeamer have the choice between walking in the spirt and choosing the flesh.
Posted by: Trig | January 18, 2006 at 11:25 AM
It’s interesting you pointed out that passage, which talks about loving your enemies – it ends with “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
The Greek word for “perfect” there is teleios or “complete, whole.” Seemly to have a complete view on your enemies, as God does --- you must love them even when they don’t deserve it --- while apparently still hating --- the sin.
Posted by: Justin | January 18, 2006 at 11:43 AM
Melinda, I have to ask you to define the word hate, as you use it here. And are you implying that God "hates" the same way we do?
Posted by: Chuck | January 18, 2006 at 12:04 PM
I too am no fan of overused and over-simplified sayings, but I am not so sure that I agree with you that God hates the sinner (and then, only in certain cases).
Your passage indicates clearly that God hates those sinful attributes (and from my understanding of the word "hate," that is a serious thing in the Bible). But - "A False Witness" does not have to necessarily be a person. To bear "false witness" is also an act of sorts, and I think you would be hard pressed to show that this proves God hates the sinner.
I am also curious to know where the more accurate Greek falls on this particular verse. Anyone out there care to indulge us?
Nice blog by the way - found you via Mr Hewitt who I always appreciate.
Posted by: Selected Pete | January 18, 2006 at 01:25 PM
Can't God love and hate the same person? C.S. Lewis once said that we all know it is possible to love and hate the same person, because that is our relationship to ourselves. So maybe the saying could be revised to "God hates you insofar as you are evil but loves you insofar as you are good, which even the most evil person is insofar as they are made in God's image." Hmmm... Doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
Posted by: bd | January 18, 2006 at 01:50 PM
BD - I suppose any scenario is possible if you decide you're going to "revise" the Bible. Many have done it before to their own undoing.
One thing the Bible is crystal clear on is that human ways are not God's ways. He does not suffer from the flaws we do. It does encourage us the other way around though - to emulate Christ.
Posted by: Selected Pete | January 18, 2006 at 02:08 PM
Selected Pete,
How is BD, by trying to understand a concept --- "revising" the Bible?
Posted by: Justin | January 18, 2006 at 02:24 PM
I'm with Justin.
Posted by: bd | January 18, 2006 at 02:35 PM
It seems that "hate" is a complex word in the bible, because on one hand it says:
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
But on the other:
John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
If we are not to allow contradictions in the Bible, we obviously must have at least two meanings for the word here. The Greek word is the same in both cases. (miseo)
Posted by: Markku Koponen | January 18, 2006 at 02:44 PM
I have to say I agree with a lot of the statements above. It seems that Jesus ate with, associated with, and showed love toward a lot of sinners, while at the same time, not approving of their sin. It seems to me that God hates our sinful actions, but due to His love for us is willing to forgive us, via our acceptance of Christ.
Posted by: Blake | January 18, 2006 at 03:09 PM
One problem in this phrase is that it might suggest that when we sin, God's anger is not directed at us, but at some metaphysical concept of sin that is separate from us. This would of course be untrue. His anger and punishment always fall on a person. Either the sinner or Christ.
But I think the idea behind the phrase is that God's heart is not hard towards any sinner, like ours is towards those we hate.
Posted by: Markku Koponen | January 18, 2006 at 03:35 PM
I have been hearing a lot of calvinists recently telling others that God hates people. I have a problem with that. We need to understand the passages they say prove God hates. God doesn't hate people for various reasons:
1. God would be a murderer who doesn't follow his own commandments if he hated people.
2. God so loved the world, not only the elect.
3. Everyone one is a sinner so if he hates sinners he hates everyone. Of course I'm sure people would say he only hates nonelected sinners...
4. It goes against God's nature. God is righteous, just and love. He's not hate.
We must understand God does not actually hate the person that is indeed created in his own image. The passages should be understood to say that God hates that actions surrounding the person.
Posted by: Matt | January 18, 2006 at 04:37 PM
Hi - One last clarification, and I'll not labor further - I think the original statement from the article, while not a Bible verse itself, is still Biblically sound.
BD- Perhaps I could choose better words by saying that I do not find supporting verse or context here that says God hates a person, or that He somehow hates and loves them at the same time. I do find much throughout the Bible that indicates that He hates sin because sin separates us from Him. In the end, it is that final and endless separation from God that is far worse than any fires or torment we can imagine in human terms.
I would be curious to know if anyone here believes that God hopes to bridge the gulf between Himself and say - Bin laden? Does God offer eternal life and immediate forgiveness to Bin laden? Or, does he hate him?
Posted by: Selected Pete | January 18, 2006 at 04:38 PM
Markku- good point on the sin/anger has to be directed at a person thing.
Pete- Your last question misses the point I was trying to make- it can be both. Also, I think you have to deal with the evidence Melinda originally offerred.
Matt- I think you have a good point on having to understand all these verses in conjuction. If we understand loving as a comittment to the true good of another and hate as the opposite of this, then surely God can't hate. Maybe hate means something like despise when attributed to God.
Posted by: bd | January 18, 2006 at 04:58 PM
God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day. Psalm 7:11
I am still trying to find the verse that says God is in love with the wicked every day. Anybody know where that one is?
God loves the repentant wicked, doesn't He, as the repentant wicked are His people, aren't they? I imagine that the repentant are the only ones that are His people. Jew or Greek, male or female, slave or free, the repentant are all God's chosen people, aren't they? God loves them doesn't he? Does God love those who are not His chosen ones? Only God knows who they are, doesn't He? As long as we know that we are chosen in the beloved. Can we know?
Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test? But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.
Posted by: Douglas | January 18, 2006 at 05:49 PM
Hi Pete, you said: "I would be curious to know if anyone here believes that God hopes to bridge the gulf between Himself and say - Bin laden? Does God offer eternal life and immediate forgiveness to Bin laden? Or, does he hate him?"
I believe only God knows what will happen to the man. That said, remember Paul of the Bible? The guy loved to kill Christians. He was changed though and probably became the more important figure in the N.T. besides Jesus. For all we know the same could happen with Binny. Imagine if he became a Christian. Imagine the influence he could have on Muslims. Don't put it pass God. ;)
Posted by: Matt | January 18, 2006 at 06:53 PM
"That said, remember Paul of the Bible? The guy loved to kill Christians."
Hi Matt, where does it say in the Bible that Paul "loved" to kill Christians? Are you adding to Scripture?
"Imagine if he became a Christian. Imagine the influence he could have on Muslims. Don't put it pass God. ;)"
The only thing that will influence Muslim's is the preaching of the full Gospel, law and grace. Paul was often hated and beaten and whipped etc., for preaching the gospel, are we prepared within our western affluence to suffer the same?
What If Mr. Bin Laden is not chosen by God but is instead:
Job 21:30 For the wicked are reserved for the day of doom; They shall be brought out on the day of wrath.
What Osma Bin Laden has been doing and is doing, is absolutely evil, the murder of men, women and children. Osama Bin Laden must face justice first and foremost. Yes, give him the oppurtunity to repent of his evil sinfulness but he still needs to face the full weight of International Law for his wicked crimes.
The Bible says "...many are called but few are chosen." "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
Posted by: Douglas | January 18, 2006 at 09:09 PM
Preach it Melinda! I was just studying Malachi 1, and was struggling through verse 3. "but I have hated Esau." I'm thinking "hated" in Hebrew has to mean something other than what I think of as "hate." But after looking up the Hebrew I found out that hate does mean hate.
Psalm 5:5 says, "The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity."
We all deserve to be hated, but we're not. God can and does hate those whom he choses to hate. We don't understand how that can be because we are not righteous. God is righteous and as such, can hate righteously.
Posted by: Cathy N. | January 18, 2006 at 09:51 PM
Hi, all. Haven't made up my mind on this, yet, but thought I'd add my two cents.
I did a little research (New Bible Commentary and International Standard Bible Encyclopedia). First, I found that the words translated "hate" in both OT & NT can sometimes mean "reject" or merely "love less".
Also, here is an excerpt of what Gerhard Hasel had to say in his entry on 'Hate' in the ISBE:
[When Paul quotes from Malachi,] the prophetic saying maintains that God's choice of Jacob was an act of His grace and was not conditioned by the merit or failure of either of these twin brothers.... The "hatred" of Esau and the peoples descended from him does not involve ill will or the intention to harm and destroy on the part of God. The preference of Jacob is like that of the husband who "loves" one of his spouses and "hates" or "loves less" the other [as Jacob himself did]. The present "hate" of literal Israel and choice of spiritual Israel to accomplish God's purpose for the world is not guided by an arbitrary love or hate of God and it does not imply injustice on His part. It demonstrates God's righteousness in making salvation possible for all mankind, because "Israel" means the elect and not Jews by physical descent....
The hate of Jesus (and the Church) for the works of the Nicolaitans in Ephesus (Rev. 2:6) differentiates between the ones who work evil and their evil works. Only the evil works are hated. An extension of this leads to the well-known idea of hating the sin and loving the sinner. This idea is already embedded in the OT, where God hates sin but has no pleasure in the death of the sinner, and desires only that he be converted from his ways and live (Ezk. 18:23).
Earlier in the article, Hasel says:
God's hatred of sin is expressive of His utter abhorrence, disgusting repugnance, and vehement aversion. Thus God hates both sin and sinners, insofar as they persist in a way of life opposed to God's will and purpose, because this rebelliousness attracts the hatred due to sin. God desires the wholehearted repentance of the sinner, but if he refuses to repent and persists in turning away from the ways of God, He is obliged in justice and love to punish and destroy (Hos. 11:5-12).
Well, there you have at least one scholar's interpretation. :->
Posted by: Chris H. | January 19, 2006 at 01:56 AM
Douglas, I would agree what Laden has done and is probably still doing is evil. I'm sure you would have viewed Paul the same way when he was still called Saul. As for Pauls love for his cruel actions against Christian one only needs to read Acts 8 and 9 close to see he enjoyed it. Let me throw a few verses at you to show you what Paul was like.
Act 9:1-2 Then Saul, *still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord*, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
Acts 8:1-3 Now *Saul was consenting to his death*.
At that time a great persecution arose against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. As for Saul, he made havoc of the church, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, committing them to prison.
The "consenting to his death" could also be translated as hearty approval of the death.
Posted by: Matt | January 19, 2006 at 04:54 AM
Matt wrote:
"1. God would be a murderer who doesn't follow his own commandments if he hated people.
2. God so loved the world, not only the elect.
3. Everyone one is a sinner so if he hates sinners he hates everyone. Of course I'm sure people would say he only hates nonelected sinners...
4. It goes against God's nature. God is righteous, just and love. He's not hate."
First, I'm not sure how you can reconcile your view with the Psalm 5:5 passage quoted above, but here are my responses.
1. God can do whatever He wants with His creation. If He decides a person should die for touching the ark, that's His perogative, so I'm not sure how we can level the charge of "immoral" at God for anything He does.
2. God loved the world, so He sent Christ to take on the wrath of His righteous, just hatred for those who do iniquity (all of us). Are you saying that everyone is saved? I'm not sure how this goes toward your point of God not hating.
3. Yes, that is correct, He hates all sinners, thus He hates all of us. That's called BAD NEWS. The GOOD NEWS is that He provided a means for us to be sheltered from that hatred. The GOOD NEWS is *NOT* that there is no hatred.
4. If God is "righteous" and "just" (as you stated) then how does He deal with those who break His laws? He "loves" them but sends them to hell?
The problem is that we have forgotten to have a proper "fear" of the Lord. We want God as our buddy, our cosmic ATM, our feel-good-fix, our help-me-out-when-I'm-uncomfortable, but that isn't the God of the Bible. He's the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.
Don't forget the He's still God.
Posted by: Paul | January 19, 2006 at 02:41 PM
While "hate the sin, love the sinner" is too simplistic, so is "hate the sin, hate the sinner." God does hate the sinner, but he also has benevolent love for the sinner which Westminster Confession discusses. This article by the late Dr. Gerstner is helpful...
http://www.the-highway.com/lovesinner_Gerstner.html
Posted by: Jack | January 19, 2006 at 04:07 PM
I think the main point here is that we are all sinners, and yet the Bible talks many times about God's love for us. In fact, I would wager that there are more passages in the New Testament about God's love than about God hating sinners. That is not to say that God is not angered when we sin and of course if we don't repent and accept Christ we need to bear the penalty for that anger. However if God simply hated sinners, why would He have sent his only Son? Now I do agree we shouldn't "water down" Christianity by not talking about God's anger and hatred of sin, but I don't know that this saying does that. I did like Chris H.'s post, especially the last part, which seems to address this issue. Anyway, just some thoughts.
Posted by: Blake | January 19, 2006 at 05:45 PM
I was reading Run Baby Run by Nicky Cruz last night, and something dawned on me. If you think that the person you are talking to is already aware that he is a sinner, you should speak about God's love. This goes to the gang-members and drug-addicts for example. They simply cannot escape their sinfulness, no matter how well they can cover it up.
But if the person is what the world would call "a reasonably good person", you shouldn't say anything that might make his conscience better. And this very phrase might just do that. These people don't think that their sin is a big deal anyhow, and if you even hint that God's wrath "for those small mistakes that everyone makes" is not directed at them, they will only become harder to reach.
Posted by: Markku Koponen | January 20, 2006 at 07:12 AM
The God Nobody Knows
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/UnknownGod.html
This study discusses attributes of God that very few people know about. These attributes are attributes that many people do not want to believe God has, because they are normally thought of as "negative" character traits. However, when we better understand the sovereignty of God and His position above us, we can see that God has every right to do as he pleases and is not answerable to any man:
Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Posted by: Douglas | January 20, 2006 at 07:45 AM
Jack, well put. I hope I didn't communicate that "hate the sin, hate the sinner" is the extent of theology needed on the topic. Of course God also loves the sinner, since He sent Christ to die for us, while we were still actively rebelling against Him.
Posted by: Paul | January 22, 2006 at 09:12 PM
If God loved the sinner and hated the sin, why did He utterly destroy Sodom and Gomorah?
Posted by: barry | January 29, 2006 at 07:55 PM
G-d does not hate, at least not in the our human, limited way of thought.G-d is above feelings such as hate because hate always results from jelousy or some injustice inflicted upon someone. However,sometimes in order to teach us G-d must act in a hateful manner although it greatly pains Him to hurt his beloved children.G-d's hate is a manifestation of His love.
Posted by: yip | February 11, 2006 at 06:31 PM
Barry said: "G-d's hate is a manifestation of His love."
So, when God sends sinners to hell He's doing it because He loves them?
Anyway, if God just hated the sin He wouldn't send anybody to hell, He'd just send their sin to hell. But oh wait, as someone already commented above, it's erroneous and misleading to talk about sin as some metaphysical entity that exists apart from the people who commit it. The scriptures that were used in the original post are clear. We need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds and let God define how He acts and what His love is instead of coming at it with our preconceived notions of how He should act or think and in doing so judge the God of the universe whose ways are higher than our ways and thoughts higher than our thoughts. "But who are you, oh man, to answer back to God?"
Posted by: David Pell | March 31, 2006 at 09:03 AM
God is perfect in love isn't he? Wouldn't that mean that he is also perfect in hate? The bible is clear that God hates sin, but God hates without sinning. Jesus was angry with those who were mocking his father's house and with the pharisee's calling them hypocrites and brood of vipers. He didn't sin though. It was a perfect anger without sin... I personally think that is almost incomprehensible...In our fleshly state it seems to me an impossibility to hate without sinning but it isn't to God. God is perfect, holy, righteous and just. His ways are higher than ours.
Some say that a good and loving God wouldn't send anybody to Hell.
If someone murdered your wife or daughter or son and they were apprehended and the judge let the murderer go. Would you think that the judge was a good judge or a bad one. Because God is good he can't allow murderers,adulterers,liars and others who have broken his moral law to go unpunished. That's why we need Christ. When justice is about to be served and our just punishment is Hell..Jesus Christ paid our fine..All we have to do is confess, repent and put our faith and trust in the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Posted by: Brad Howerton | May 15, 2006 at 08:11 PM
This is a saying that I have heard for a long, long time. I have even used it on your site before. Ugh! I wish that I knew what I knew now. I try and make every effort to make Jesus' Word the only thing that I believe as doctrine, but somehow that slipped in without my noticing it's poor doctrine. WOW! In this walk with Jesus, we have to stay really close to the bible and the more that I live life, the more I realize that this saying is SO TRUE!!! Peace Brothers.
Posted by: Dominique | June 27, 2006 at 09:22 AM
I am writing in reguards to what I just wrote. I do realize that the comment that was just made, on my behalf, was utterly wrong. The saying: love the sinner and hate the sin is so true. Born-Again Christians are still sinners - repentant sinners but nonetheless sinners (you should know that we are sinners from your daily lives). So, the fact that we are to love the sinner and hate the sin only applies to born-again believers. We are saints, yes, but we are also repentant sinners. Therefore, this saying is doctrinal. Peace Brothers.
Posted by: Doiminique | June 27, 2006 at 09:26 AM
Dwight Moody Preached that God hated sinners. He wouldnt beleive that God had love for sinners. But after hearing 7 sermons on John 3:16 by the boy preacher I beleive from Ireland He realized that God so loved the world. Not just the saved Christians.
Posted by: David | July 06, 2006 at 11:53 AM
One thing to keep in mind is that the phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is used when referring to unsaved people as if God isn't angry at them or hates them. He is and He does. No getting around that. Does he love them? well...thats another debate for another day (the elect). Does He hate them? Yes. The wording is "Sane" pronounced "Saw-nay" and means hate. When the unsaved heart the hating sin/loving sinners thing, they think they are getting "let off of the hook" somehow. It makes rebellion easier on the mind if you think He's not angry at you or that He doesn't hate you.
Instead of trying to reconcile the two attributes...I say just let them be what they are; two statements about God.
Posted by: Robert Pavich | December 08, 2006 at 12:57 PM
Why is this inaccurate? I thought that God "demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8. Why send His precious Son to die in sinners' place if He didn't love them? God hates sin, no doubt, but His love and wrath combine at the Cross.
Posted by: Rollins | December 08, 2008 at 02:00 PM