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March 03, 2009

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If the Church starts assuming the gospel (Saved by grace, thru faith alone, thru Christ alone), as is happening in both the "conservative" and "progressive" evangelical Churches, we will lose the gospel in one generation. It happened in the mainline Churches, which are now just "works righteousness" assemblies and it's happening now in the Evangelical congregations.

The emergent church might mention the gospel in their creed but that's the last time you'll ever hear or see it. The emergent church like to portray themselves as neither republican or democrat but if you look at the issues that are important to them they look like the far left of the democrat party. I saw Tony Campola on John Stewart the other day and his last line was that we will be judged by how we help the poor. Sounds like "works righteousness" to me.

Les, what do you mean by 'assuming the gospel? Are you taking about the Church assuming everyone knows the gospel already? Which mainline churches, specifically, are you referring to?

I think thats what he ment too, assumed as in, assume the church already knows 'Christ Alone', grace alone, faith alone.

This is off topic, but I sent a question to STR and got an auto reply that said responses may take up to three months. Does anyone know the name of Greg's guest from India and Australia on Saturday's show? I would also like to know the name of the guest's book.

KS, his guest was Jossy Chacko. His book is here on his website.

Thanks, Amy! : )

What I mean by assuming is that you very seldom hear it and therefore many people think of Christianity of just another set of rules. Michael Horton's group (Modern Reformation Magazine) has done many live polls at crusades, Christian book sellers conventions, pastor conventions and they ask very simple questions about the gospel and many people get it wrong and show their complete ignorance about our faith.

Yes, many of the mainline liberal Churches and many of the conservative Evangelical Churches stress works and you hardly ever hear or understand completely what the Gospel is.

I am an atheist, but hear me out here.

A lot of religious people seem to have read books about the book, about the books about the book, and about the books about the books about the book, without having bothered to read the book.

And even those that do tend to treat it more like a handy collection of quotable quotes.

So here is my solution for you: Do what the Jews did with the Torah.

With the Jews reading the Torah is a mitzvah, and it is highly encouraged in Jewish people as a form of self-respect.

It is a sort of "How can you claim to be serving God if you haven't even bothered to read his instructions?"

Put that across in your sermons and you will find that atheists start respecting your followers more, because nothing annoys us as much as someone cursing us for not believing a message they haven't even bothered to read for themselves.

Dear Mr. Atheist,
Thanks for the encouragement to read the bible. As a Christian, I agree that we all would be better served if we read it more. Even non-Christians can benefit from reading a book that is full of wisdom and moral teachings that have been relevant to so many for such a long time.
I sincerely hope that less people "curse" you for not believing the gospel message.

Bruce,

Historically, we Christians have done a pretty poor job of representing our Saviour. Alas, we struggle with human nature, too. (Please have a read of Galatians, Chapter 5, for a superior understanding and articulation of this struggle.)

Every aspect of life (and it's pursuits) has its various levels of understanding. Christianity, too, has its novices, beginners, and even its mavericks.

Bruce, I understand (and validate) your frustration. Some seem to be content to walk a few steps in front of "Christ's banner" instead of beside it and beneath it.

For those Christians that have cursed you for your position, I am deeply sorry. Jesus is the divine human example of how we should align our demeanor and character. Cursing another pushes. It doesn't pull (and it certainly does not invite.)

Many times an individual's fervor for their message (Christian, athiest, or otherwise) will surpass (or even usurp)his or her intellect, capacity for grace, and application of common sense, per se.

Yes, we Christians should be more familiar with The Word of God...both textually and characteristically.

(I have also been ostracized by athiests simply because of my trust in God. That's a little annoying too, but I try to go beyond the "fleshly annoyances" to arrive at understanding...and that, I need His Grace to do.)

David:

I think it is pretty important for most of us to be familiar with the major religious texts - it helps us see where everyone is coming from.

Bruce.

I agree with you totally.

And Erik. From the point of view of an outsider, the fact that Christianity actually preaches hell and ANY Christian is so unconcerned with this fact that they haven't read their holy book is also most unhelpful.
(Nothing against you mate. You obviously have done your required reading. But others...)

And back to you again Bruce. Interestingly many scholars of philosophy recommend a reading of other scholars' readings of Plato rather than a reading of the man himself (he being sooo difficult...

Kinda lost my point...

Interestingly many scholars of philosophy recommend a reading of other scholars' readings of Plato rather than a reading of the man himself (he being sooo difficult...

...However the difference is that so far as I know Plato never intimated that a reading of him would effect our position in eternity (though I stand to correction since he supposedly invented a good part of it - eternity that is.)

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