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December 09, 2012

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“In this very brief history of modern cosmological physics, the laws of quantum and relativistic physics represent things to be wondered at but widely accepted: just like biblical miracles. M-theory invokes something different: a prime mover, a begetter, a creative force that is everywhere and nowhere. This force cannot be identified by instruments or examined by comprehensible mathematical prediction, and yet it contains all possibilities. It incorporates omnipresence, omniscience and omnipotence, and it’s a big mystery. Remind you of Anybody?” (Radford)

The Tri-Omni Immaterial seems to emerge....

“A move to advance the cause of atheism by means of a highly speculative, un-testable theory that is not within the zone of evidence-based science, and which, even if it were true, could not dislodge God in any case, is not exactly calculated to impress those of us whose faith in God is not speculative, but testable and well within the zone of evidence based rational thought.” (Lennox)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

And your Material Eternal Free Lunch?

Cernan's comments seem fairly typical of Christian believers. In my experience, it's not that they usually have an argument or reason to believe what they do. Rather, they just can't bring themselves to countenance the alternative.

Ben,

As you've been a stated Immaterialist I assume you define "immaterial" as some sort of yet to be discovered something.

Am I correct?

That an everlasting Free Lunch exists is self-evident by Logic's eye.


Self-Evident?

Logic?

These quotes tend to get more interesting when you look into them:

"There has to be somebody bigger than you and bigger than me.. And I mean this in a spiritual sense, not in a religious sense, there has to be a creator of the universe who stands above the religions that WE, OURSELVES CREATE TO GOVERN OUR LIVES."

- Gene Cernan Apollo 17

That last bit there is important.

I agree with him.

When i look at this
http://www.lsw.uni-heidelberg.de/users/jheidt/fdf/fdf.html
or this
http://www.strings.ph.qmul.ac.uk/~bigdraw/feynman/slide3.html

it would seem that there ought be something more to it all.

Then when I consider the Christian message: that the being who made this stuff visited the middle east 2000 years ago, told a few farmers that if they worship him, they will live in paradise when they die, and then, for his first miracle, he made alcoholic beverages.

Inconceivable!

Self evident.

Tony-

I don't believe that anyone is 'accusing' Gene Cernan of being a thoroughgoing Christian believer of the sort who would see through the sham of post-modernism.

He does, however, see through the sham of atheism.

Ron-

I don't think Cernan is offering an argument, so your effort to identify some fallacy that he commits is doomed to failure.

Cernan's point, I think, is that he views the denial of a Creator as inconceivable much as one might view, say, the denial of the Peano axioms of arithmetic as inconceivable.

Now Cernan may well have reasons for finding the denial of a creator inconceivable...he may even have hinted at them in the quote. None of that means that he has committed any fallacy...One may, similarly and without fallacy, have reasons for thinking that the denial of the Peano axioms is inconceivable and even drop hints about what those reasons are.

Nuances rise to the surface and fashion our reasons:


M-Theory’s mathematically incomprehensible Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscience seems to emerge. Omni’s Triune Topography emerges. Epistemology seems to be of a Triune Topography as Ben describes quite well, though perhaps unintentionally. Ontology seems to be of a Triune Topography within Being’s singular and pleural I and You and I-You. Self-Evident Free Lunches seem to emerge as necessary. Logic seems to regress to Self-Evidence as well and such is housed within Epistemology’s Triune Topography. Through all these windows an everlasting Free Lunch emerges atop a sort of terrain that has multiple yet perfect fronts all of which comprise a singular whole. All available evidence points towards the Immaterial as the source of that Free Lunch. We find in all this that there are strong vectors emerging from the Other and Outer which echo a staunchly Triune, Immaterial, Eternal, Uncaused Cause. There are patterns of such a Triune Topography mechanized within the immutable semantics of a perpetual one-way incline in an eternal language comprised of Word’s material manifest wherein truth precedes corporeal. In all these things Love’s own Triune Topography casually ebbs and flows quite unobstructed and buoys up illumination of what Necessarily Exists. From Timelessness and into Time and back again into Timelessness these self-evident triune patterns swallow up whole all of our formulas of infinities, all of our equations of pain, all of our rules of suffering, all of our blueprints of the purely human, all of our diagrams of multi-verses, and all of our prescriptions of the purely inhuman, and in all these the Triune holds fast to the satisfaction of coherence as it houses multiple perfect distincts which effortlessly furnish us with their singular reality laced with ports and bays saturated with Ships that easily set sail and satisfy the demands of all these equations and serenely traverse all ad infinitums. In this set of patterns all things merge unhindered and in all these things we find that odd Eternally Sacrificed Self where both Logic and Love confirm the Triune Topography of Epistemology and of Ontology, of Will and of Love, and even of Perfection itself and thereby bring us to our Necessary End of Ad Infinitum comprised of those immutable semantics of that eternal language of the Everywhere and Always. There just is no other set of patterns of a singular whole freely self-manifesting in this fashion which fully accounts for all that we see, all that we observe, all that we perceive, all that we feel, all that we cry, and all that we scream out.


This is something so self-evident that even after all these years and all I have read, I still cannot believe atheists still exist in the world!

Hi Ben,

"Welcome to my world!"....as they say.

Insert "skeptic" into your comment instead of "Christian believer", and you have described the universal experience of the Christian apologist with skeptics to a 'T'.

Regards,
John

Mo, it would seem that way, but when we see sin as rebellion against God, we know that we are ALL rebellious, Christian or not. As believers we are mercifully saved. Atheists "still exist in the world" because they refuse to bend the knee to what we see as so self-evident. Extreme self-pride, extreme sense of knowing better than anyone else...sad. (I know you know all this, and you were just expressing your incredulity that anyone could miss the evidence of God, just thought I'd chime in!) Sin is alive and well in the world.

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