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February 28, 2013

Comments

I don't think this is quite the point of Bechdel test. The qualifying aspect is not "women talk about guys they like" or relationships in general, it is "women talk about something else then men", any man, father, brother, son, lover, fiancee, etc. The whole point is not really micro/macro issue, rather then that women are solely focused through the lens of their relationship with men, rather then as individuals in their own right. The way I understand it, two women talking about their hobbies passes the Bechdel test. Basically:

1. Two women talking about knitting a sweater passes the Bechdel test.

2. Two women talking about knitting a sweater for their boyfriends to wear does not pass the Bechdel test.

Your reverse Bechdel test sounds interesting, although I do recall quite a lot of films and TV shows that would pass it.

@Amy,

Perhaps the real issue isn't the idea that a particular demographic tends to talk more about "macro"-issues vs. another demographic trending more toward "micro"-issues. I think the problem is that we as Christians don't challenge those cultural-norms in the first place.

What I mean is this: I totally agree that there is a cultural norm of certain topics being considered macro-issues and others as micro-issues. If I read society right, however, I think the implicit assumption is that because those are the cultural norms in today's society, then those issues must be correctly aligned into their respective categories.

What about the idea that maybe society has it all wrong? In other words, what if the things that we as a culture consider to be "macro"-issues are really nothing more than "wood, hay and stubble?"

I think this quickly runs into the idea that as Christians, we are very much in a real sense called to be "supra-cultural", for lack of a better term. We are called out, holy people who are set apart by God for His gracious and glorious purposes. In practical terms I think this means training ourselves to stop allowing society to dictate to us the battleground of the mind.

For example, instead of thinking about things in light of your comment:

If our culture valued micro issues, then women would feel more free to invest themselves in them without feeling guilty they’re not acting like men, and our society would be much better off.

I would tend to not think about "macro" vs. "micro" issues in terms of gender-demographics, but rather in terms of what are the macro-issues in the Scriptures, and I think that perspective totally absorbs gender-demographics and frames truly important issues in light of Biblical principles.

My reading comprehension sometimes just sucks. I just realized after writing my original comment that micro/macro-issues referred to the content of the analysis, not about the (somewhat incorrectly articulated) content of the test itself.

I am all for women being more like men as long as they become more like gay men.

Have you noticed that more men than women call in to STR on Sunday? Is there a difference in how each is treated?

If a woman sits at the "guys table" it no longer is a "guys table".

Shalom
God loves us, pray for us to love one another. God bless the Church.

Three women and one man were at the foot of the cross when Jesus died.
Four women were first to meet the Risen Lord on His Resurrection.

Being at the right place at the right time!

Shalom

I think people make movies based on what they think will help them capitalize on their investments. They are trying to predict what will be appealing to the audience and then deliver that. I feel it has more to do with money than male vs. female roles. Unless, of course, that has something to do with making money.

I think squallybimbadine makes a good point here. Because of the need to turn a profit, there is certainly an element where art imitates life. In other words, in order for the movie to draw a significant audience, it needs to resonate with the self-identity and sensibilities of the audience.

I think there is also a factor in most movies to one degree or another where the movie-makers hope that life will imitate art. That is to say that they desire to shape society by informing people with a fictional narrative to be taken as normative. This is the substance behind all propaganda throughout the ages.

Taking this into consideration, we must observe that a significant percentage of people are comfortable with the understanding that men and women are sociologically different, and that some of the same would not consciously agree with it in principle. Otherwise, the Bechdel Test would have no purpose.

Therefore, the tacit call is either for people to become less comfortable with the difference between men and women or to cow more movie-makers into using their art to shape society in this area rather than accurately reflecting societal norms.

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