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December 31, 2007

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I have known several Christians who were gay, claimed healing, and ALL went back to the gay lifestyle eventually. Some started going to "gay-friendly" churches; some abandoned organized religion altogether.

I have yet to meet a gay person, Christian or otherwise, who has been "cured."

We may never know everything about how or why a person is gay, but as a church I believe we are naive if we feel it is solely a "chosen" lifestyle.

Granted, feelings come and go and can't always be controlled, but behavior can. A promiscuous homosexual is no different from a promiscuous heterosexual. But the core disposition towards homosexuality that many gays claim they have known from an early age cannot be dismissed.

Perry:

I think you're right when you say that the church may be naive about homosexuality, but I'd like to point something out. The desire to change one's sexual orientation isn't the same as saying that one chooses to be gay.

There are probably many factors involved in sexual identity, and I'm not sure where I stand on one's ability to change it...but I'm quite sure of this: most gays don't choose to be gay, and most gays wish that their lives were different.

If we confuse the question of change with the question of cause, we make things more difficult for those who struggle with their sexual orientation.

Good words, General. I agree. The gays I have known have prayed fervently for their orientation to change, to no avail, and they just gave up.

We all have our little fetishes and sexual turn-ons that just exist, and these differ greatly from one to another. Not to necessarily equate pedophilia with homosexuality, but as much as I can't understand getting sexually aroused by children, I can't understand sexual arousal by the same sex. Some people get sexually turned on by feet, or bondage, or worse. These elude me as well, but I don't know that these people can "stop" or "change" their predilections.

I believe we can and should control our behavior, but the psyche is complicated and difficult to control, or understand.

I don't think any of us are "CURED" of sin, until we stand in Glory. We all have temptations and struggles. But I can tell you most assuredly that GOD does change hearts by His Grace. And His Word transforms people, renews their minds. Read Romans 7 for a description of the battle that we all fight, if we are Christians and honest.

I happily walked away from the lifestyle 11 years ago, by the grace of God and His Holy Spirit. I'm not going to say that I haven't sinned in my heart or slipped into thoughts or anything. And I also do not belong to any ex-gay ministries or anything. I do belong to a Gospel preaching church and serve in that church and in missions.

It's never about whiteknuckling our way out of life dominating sins. That will never work for anything. The Holy Spirit has to convict a person and then minister God's unmerited favor, forgiveness, and His divine holiness to us. It's never about us.

Alan,

Since April 15, 2005, you’ve written 24 blogs. Eight of which were about homosexual issues.

That’s 33%.

Just out of curiosity, is this like a particular topic you study? Have you ever converted anyone?

Note: I am using my TheologyWeb name instead of my real name in this post because people I know IRL who do not know my history sometimes read this blog. Please respect my privacy.

Perry: "I have yet to meet a gay person, Christian or otherwise, who has been 'cured.'"

Me, either, and I say this as a Christian with homosexual desires. That's not to say that such a change isn't possible -- my own desires have changes somewhat in the few years that I've been a Christian, though admittedly not as much as I'd like.

I recently participated in a conversation at TheologyWeb in which the topic was unrepentant practicing homosexuals. I will spell out my view on the issue below, but the entire conversation can be found here -- http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=105471

The highlights of my presentation are as follows:

1) Homosexual desire is just that -- a desire. And anyone well-versed in Christian ethics knows that it's not merely having a desire, but how you react to the desire, that determines whether you have sinned or not.

2) God has provided two non-sinful possibilities concerning sexual gratification, and no more. The first is sex within marriage with someone of the opposite sex. The second is complete abstinence. "I don't like either option" is no excuse for doing wrong -- in this case homosexual acts which are specifically prohibited.

3) There is nothing harmful in seeking psychological change, provided the person knows the truth about desire -- that it might not go away, and that its not changing doesn't make the person any less of a Christian, or any less loved by God. If merely having wrong desires made one less of a Christian there would be no Christians, because let's face it -- everyone struggles with wrong desires. If not homosexuality, then something else.

That's my views in a nutshell, though I go much more in-depth on what I believe, and my own actions(both what I am doing currently as well as what I am willing to do in the future) in the thread I linked to above. I go by the same name there, so finding my posts should be easy enough.

I am missing the point of ToNy's questio to Alan.

Also, just because we have temptations or particular desires doesn't mean that they must be acted upon or indulged.

Little Shepherd, I hear you. Well put. I especially like your #2 option. God bless you.

i guess i'm invisible, apparently.

Deb,

You're not invisible. Thank you for sharing how God's Word and Holy Spirit changed you life.

"until only Jesus was left >>> with the woman still standing there."
--John 8:9

Deb and Little Shepherd. Thank you for sharing. You make very good points that are consistent with my theological belief, my understanding of same sex attraction, and my understanding of humans.

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