Silly Pluralism

President-elect Obama has asked Bishop Gene Robinson, the first openly-homosexual bishop to be ordained in the Episcopal denomination, to given an invocation at an inaugural event.

Bishop Robinson said he had been reading inaugural prayers through history and was “horrified” at how “specifically and aggressively Christian they were.”

“I am very clear,” he said, “that this will not be a Christian prayer, and I won’t be quoting Scripture or anything like that. The texts that I hold as sacred are not sacred texts for all Americans, and I want all people to feel that this is their prayer.”

Bishop Robinson said he might address the prayer to “the God of our many understandings,” language that he said he learned from the 12-step program he attended for his alcohol addiction.

This is silly pluralism to try to express all ideas at once that really then doesn't express any of them.  In an attempt to avoid offending anyone, you still can offend since then no one's idea of God is represented.  The tradition of asking different members of the clergy to lead public invocations is to have different views represented in different individuals.  Pluralism is tolerance as each person expresses their religious belief, not giving up any coherent idea of God and religion.

Comments

[Ciysternne]

*pukes*

[jacob]

Why do you call this pluralism?

Why not call it politically astute?

[Ciysternne]

Astute, Ambiguous, Plural

same jist, different terms

[Rose]

Interesting that Bishop Robinson doesn't want to offend people...yet it doesn't seem to bother him to offend the Lord.

[Neil]

It demonstrates how he doesn't understand or believe in prayer or the true God. He is making a god in his own image.

He should read the book of Acts.

[Chad]

I don't understand why people who don't believe Christianity is true want to be ministers and Bishops. If they were doing it purposefully to undermine and destroy the Church I could understand. But why he would honestly want to be a Preacher of a Gospel that he doesn't believe and doesn't preach.....I just don't understand!

[Denis]

"this will not be a Christian prayer" - Bishop Gene Robinson

Kinda goes without saying, doesn't it?

[Tim]

If you accept the premise that religion does not make truth claims, then Bishop Robinson's logic does follow. He is not stupid. Rather he is operating from a false framework.

[RonH]

Oh he's a dangerous guy that Gene Robinson. A regular public enemy number one. A threat to truth, justice, and the American way.

The nerve: recognizing that not everyone in his audience shares the same view and adapting what he says to reflect that recognition. The nerve. The nerve.

Ron

[B]

Ron, I think you may have missed the point. :0}

[Ciysternne]

LOL, ron
and i do genuinely mean that (im laughing with you_

but i must ask then, do you think its unreasonable to be upset, or atleast disturbed by Mr. Robinsons actions?

[Ciysternne]

"Kinda goes without saying, doesn't it?"

It definitely does. I have to ask what exactly hes doing with his life in light of that statement
just being spiritual I suppose?

[Mike Westfall]

But, by offering any prayer at all, won't he be offending atheists?

[RonH]

Of all the things one could choose to be 'upset, or at least disturbed by' on January 13, 2009 this is the one?

Anybody really think that if they followed Gene Robinson around for a day they would come away thinking, "This is the guy to focus on. We need to stop this guy. He's a menace."?

Anybody?

Ron

[Sam]

I watched one of James White's videos on Youtube recently, and he made what I thought was a good observation. He said to imagine that you visited your child's school on a day where each kid was supposed to get up in front of class and talk about their parents. When your kid got up there, he/she was visibly embarrassed about having to talk about you. White said that's basically how a lot of Christians behave when talking about God--especially about the wrath of God. They dance around the issue, and instead of trying to avoid offending God, they try to avoid offending the people they are talking to ABOUT God.

[Francis Beckwith]

Ron:

Bishops don't pray to "audiences," as if customers bought tickets to hear him pray.

Prayer is not a spectator sport.

As for "Bishop" Robinson, the "church" that ordained him claims to have done so as part of apostolic succession. But if "prayer" is just a verbal spectacle to please the "audience," then anyone can claim to be a bishop. If "anything goes," then I hereby declare Bishop Robinson a giant ferret named Tony.

One more thing, Bishop Robinson really is not a "pluralist." For he denies that any one point of view is correct except his assessment of individual religious points of view. Thus, he is a monist who believes that no religious tradition can legitimately claim to have the exclusive truth. It is view that he believes everyone should hold, and that if you disagree you are wrong.

Bishop Robinson: still a passive aggressive liberal fundamentalist after all these years.

[Kevin Winters]

I'm curious: would you rather whoever gives the prayer prays from a Christian perspective and, during that prayer, outright condemns homosexuality and abortion, speaking 'the truth' of Obama's support in the process and condemning him for doing so, requesting that the Spirit will soften his heart in the process of his presidency and he will change his tune and become a wholehearted Conservative, forsaking his wickd Liberal ways?

[Damian]

Amazing! In an attempt to "include all" the good bishop excludes all except his own.

Fascinating. How is this pluralsim? It includes nothing but the bishop's view. In delcaring the "god of many understandings" the only god invoked is the god of many understandings and no other. lol. Ridiculous.

Is this going to be the inaguration of a president or a total cultural collapse?

[Kevin Winters]

Oh, one more (sincere) question: would you rather the person who prays give a distinctly Christian message including the condemnation of all non-Christians to hell if they don't put their trust in Jesus?

[Tim Miller]

Actually Kevin, I would prefer that prayer to the hypocritical pabulum Robinson will regurgitate. Such a prayer wouldn't be politically correct, but then again the Cross is foolishness to them who are perishing.

Be not deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man sews, that shall he also reap.

It is appointed unto men once to die, and then the judgment.

I do not pass this message out of dislike, but as a warning of coming peril to those who reject God's gift.

There is a way that seem right to men, but the end is destruction.

I don't hate anyone, I can disagree without hate.

Ultimately everyone will know Truth, and many will forever deeply regret their rejection of it.

[Jim T.]

Tim >> Ultimately everyone will know Truth, and many will forever deeply regret their rejection of it.

Sounds awesome!

Those non-elect and totally depraved people will finally get what is coming to them.

[Chris]

Kevin, assuming that your questions are "sincere", just re-read Dr. Beckwith's post above.

[Ciysternne]

The prayrer is just silly. How about that. Right down to Mr. Robinsons quote, "This is not going to be a christian prayrer".

Itd be like going to a Fall of Troy concert (thats a rock group), and right before the performance the lead singer says, "This is not going to be a rock concert."

My question is, and I acknoweldge this question is frivolous; Why have a gay episcopalian (sp?) bishop "pray", if he is essentially not going to do such? I duno, the whole thing is just, funny

[Sam]

Ciysternne has a good point. I mean if the prayer is going to be so ambiguous that it doesn't represent anybody's point of view, then what difference does it make who does the praying? Why specifically choose an Episcopal bishop?

[RonH]

Hi Francis,

The 'audience' is the people who hear the prayer - besides the one saying it. That's all I meant. Is there a term for those people?

I guess you don't like the guy? Seems like a nice guy to me.

Ron

[Chris DeForge]

Elections have consequences... this is one of them.

[James]

Jim T notes: "Those non-elect and totally depraved people will finally get what is coming to them."

Ah yes, the "non-elect". Quite a large group! This includes Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Anabaptists (just ask John Calvin), Unitarians, Greek Orthodox (idolators?) and even Spurgeon (see http://outsidethecamp.org/heterodoxy21.htm)

The only ones in Heaven will be Fred Phelps and his family. How do they know they're among the elect? Because they say so!

[Randall]

Hmm, seems like a few nerves got touched here. Wonder what it will be like when we have to face God?

Or worse, bow down and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father? Phil 2:11 No one is exempt.

[Jesse]

"The texts that I hold as sacred are not sacred texts for all Americans, and I want all people to feel that this is their prayer.”

You know, if he doesn't quote from Scripture, I don't _feel_ this will be my prayer. I FEEL LEFT OUT!

[Daniel Wynne]

"I hereby declare Bishop Robinson a giant ferret named Tony" This is just arrogant and exclusive. You are clearly a Ferretist!! I think he is a rodent of many understandings.

[a friend of STR]

Does God want a prayer to be "everyone's" prayer or a prayer He is pleased with? Otherwise, what is prayer? Sure enough, there is a prayer for everyone, but I doubt it is the one Bishop Robinson is planning (e.g., "that this will not be a Christian prayer").

[Warren]

The first stage of the disease is to not let what you believe affect how you act.

The later stage of the disease is that he doesn't want what he believes, nor what the Church believes, to affect what he believes, does, or expresses. He leads a church that doesn't believe anything, by not believing anything himself.

"Oh possibly-great whatever it is that may or may not exist, we ask you, or we advise you, or we direct you, or we ourselves hope and affirm, that all manner of various things may be done unto thy Servant/Master/Fashion-Accessory, Barack Obama. Amen/Ya-Rule/Whatever."

Warren