Since God regulated slavery in the Old Testament, does this automatically mean that He approves of slavery? Just as some answer "yes" today, the Pharisees also jumped to a similarly wrong conclusion in Matthew 19 when they asked Jesus a question:
"Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?" And [Jesus] answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?...What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?" He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way."
Notice what happens here. The Pharisees come with a legal question about which regulations ought to govern divorce, and Jesus responds in a very unexpected way, saying there shouldn't be any divorce. The Pharisees are immediately confused. "But how could it be that there shouldn't be any divorce if God regulated it? Doesn't that mean He thinks it's hunky-dory as long as it's done right?"
Jesus makes it clear that this is not the case.
The Pharisees had missed something very important about law: there's a difference between what's legal and what's moral—between the practical need to deal with reality and the existence of an ideal. The Law was not meant to be an exhaustive list of everything moral and immoral. It functioned as every national set of laws functions—as reasonably enforceable rules to govern their society. And the Pharisees had made the mistake of focusing on merely staying within the regulations instead of going beyond them to seek the goodness of God's ideal.
As with divorce, the same was true for slavery. The rules regulating slavery were added "because the hardness of the hearts" of humanity had created a situation where slavery existed and served certain functions in their societies, "but it was not that way from the beginning." In the beginning, there was human dignity and equal value resulting from the fact that every single individual—young or old, rich or poor, royal or commoner—was made in the image of God. But after the Fall, the ideal society was out the window, and God had to deal with what was actually there.
Deeply ingrained cultural patterns don't change overnight, but must be redeemed over time. Slavery was intricately woven into the cultures of the day, so, as with divorce (neither being the situation God desired), God made rules to keep the evil of the practice to a minimum. For example, if you kidnapped someone and made him a slave, you were put to death. If a slave escaped from his master for whatever reason, you were not allowed to return him. If you harmed so much as a tooth of your slave, you had to let him go free—in other words, no person was allowed to keep a slave if he mistreated him or her. Slavery in Western countries would never even have gotten off the ground had these rules been followed; the first rule alone would have prevented it.
Regulating a bad situation is not a foreign concept to us. We see some people using this same principle today regarding abortion. They say it's too much a part of our society at the moment to enforce a complete ban, though abortion is immoral, so they support regulating certain things about it for now in order to reduce the evil of it (banning only partial-birth abortions, or third trimester abortions, or regulating the issues surrounding abortion, for example). That doesn't mean either that they think abortion is fine or that they intend for the situation to remain in that same state forever.
God regulated divorce, and yet He explicitly said He hates it, so the regulation of the practice did not mean He condoned it. Therefore, one cannot assume that God's regulation of slavery meant God condoned slavery.
All that said (and much more could be said), the question remains: If God opposed slavery and would need to redeem the culture from it slowly over a long period of time, why not just prevent it from ever existing in the first place? The same question could be asked of all suffering that results from human sin—why does God allow it? Since the Fall, suffering has served an important purpose in this world. God's highest goal for us is not our comfort, but our more intimate knowledge of, appreciation of, and love for Him. The existence of suffering around us has long been used by God to remind us of the ugliness of sin—a physical illustration of the fact that our hearts are far from God's perfection, and a reminder of our desperate need for Him and His mercy.
Slavery has served this same purpose. Freedom is God's ideal—the kind of freedom found in the Garden at the beginning before the Fall (that is, the freedom to follow God openly and completely, without hindrance). And God's rescuing the Israelites from slavery served for them (and for all generations) as a physical illustration of a spiritual truth. Because they understood the meaning of physical slavery, the invisible truth of their spiritual slavery to sin and their need for redemption could be made visible for all to see and understand. And because they knew God orchestrated their release from slavery, they knew not only that slavery—physical or spiritual—was not the ideal, but that He cared about their condition and desired to release them from it.
The existence of slavery in the world taught God's people both the condition of their own hearts and a crucial truth about their great, good God. This is why it was Christians in the 18th and 19th century who not only worked to see that others were freed from their spiritual slavery, but who also led the way in following God's desire to free others from physical slavery.
As with the other suffering of history, God did not prevent slavery from ever existing, though He could have. But this was neither random, senseless, nor in vain. Just as Joseph said of his own suffering as a slave that "[they] meant it for evil, but God meant it for good," slavery did not pass through this world without accomplishing a purpose even greater than the suffering.
"Didn't expect agreement. Was just suprised by some of the arguments. So it goes. "
So it goes, indeed, and im talking about argumentation in its entirety. Were all in the same boat.
Posted by: Jennifer Aniston | August 14, 2009 at 12:57 PM
When we speak of "just indentured servants" instead of outright slaves, one could argue that indenture is worse than slavery. Indentured servants have no "trade-in" value, and the master of an indentured servant would try to get as much out of the servant as possible before the indenture expires. Rental cars get more rough treatment than ones that are owned. So would it make sense that any legal system, bronze age or otherwise, might focus more on protection for indentured servants than it would for slaves?
Posted by: Johnnie | August 14, 2009 at 01:08 PM
If im not mistaken Johnnie, indentured servents owed debts, correct?
Wouldent slaves be more like rental cars than rental cars then?
Slaves dont owe anything *
Unless im mistaken in my first statement
Posted by: Jennifer Aniston | August 14, 2009 at 01:46 PM
... Whoops,
"Wouldent slaves be more like rental cars than indentured servants, then"
Is how it should have read
Posted by: Jennifer Aniston | August 14, 2009 at 02:39 PM
Prince,
Amy offered Deuteronomy 23:15-16 as if these verses showed the Bible regulating slavery among the Hebrews.
The purpose of these verses seems to me to be to undermine neighboring economies by offering their escaped slaves safe refuge.
The Emancipation Proclamation was motivated in part by the same motive.
RonH
Posted by: RonH | August 14, 2009 at 04:47 PM
It seems to me that saying that "slavery is always wrong" is wrong. In fact, our modern societies continue practices which are conceptually similar to slavery.
For example:
- we imprison people today. Is that wrong? Conceptually, this is the same thing as slavery- we deprive them of their rights as an individual.
- people join the army. Conceptually, they are slaves to the people in their command for a fixed period of time.
- during war, residents from the enemy country are restricted in their freedoms, or worse, as a matter of safety for the home population and war effort.
Some of these reasons are the same reasons which included slavery in ancient times. Prisons were not practical to establish in ancient contexts, but slavery was a well known institution, achieving some of the same purposes.
The Bible shines as a light in showing HOW to practice slavery with justice, rather than seeking the impossible task in those days of eradicating a system which in fact was necessary for some social purposes.
Posted by: Phil Wilson | August 14, 2009 at 04:52 PM
this article is brilliant in dealing with the question from a Christian perspective:
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qnoslave.html
Posted by: Phil Wilson | August 14, 2009 at 06:55 PM
Indenture is for a fixed period of time, not for a fixed amount of labor. The time is fixed by contract. The amount of debt is immaterial.
Posted by: Johnnie | August 14, 2009 at 08:00 PM
Through all of this, I'm still stuck on my previous question to joe, why all the hub-bub about slavery on your part?
Posted by: Chris | August 14, 2009 at 09:30 PM
Johnnie, was the contract ever based off of a particular debt?
Posted by: Jennifer Aniston | August 14, 2009 at 09:44 PM
Chris,
ANY social injustice is worth getting worked up about. Are there any social injustices (abortion, gay rights debates, genocide, international human rights) that you consider worth protesting at all? That you spend any amount of effort opposing?
Joe is building his rationale on some very sound moral principles.
1) Morality applies equally and in the exact same way to every person at all times and places. In other words, if slavery was wrong during the Civil War, then it was equally wrong in the Peloponnesian War.
2) Every person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.
3) No human individual or institution can rightly deprive anyone of their right to freedom without just cause.
4) If the Bible does not agree with these moral absolutes, then the Bible is inconsistent with self-evident moral principles.
Joe, I agree with you 100% on these bedrock principles. Where I depart from you is when you equate the despotic, unjust, barbaric slavery of 19th cent America with every other historic use of the word "slavery," and Jewish slave-holding in particular. If the actual practice was indentured servitude for debt relief, employment during time of famine, for martial protection or due to religious conversion, then this is NOT equal to modern slavery. If it was used in place of prison for criminals or during wartime, it was NOT the same. If it was the same RACIALLY motivated deprivation of liberty and ethnic dehumanization, then it was equally wrong.
One glaring oversight in your argument is that if Israel practiced slavery, and God never explicitly condemned it, then God tacitly gave it His blessing. Hopefully it is clear to you that God is not responsible for what Joe and Sage do, even if God fails to mention anything about the stupid, immoral things you and I choose to do. God does not explicitly condemn a multitude of sins...He hates them all, but based on the Exodus and Jesus' crucifixion as primary examples, He obviously hates slavery.
Slavery to a human master is a prison sentence that pales in comparison to eternal slavery to indomitable inner compulsions toward self-destruction (our sinful human nature).
Posted by: Sage S | August 14, 2009 at 09:59 PM
Jennifer:
An indenture is a contract. A contract is the exchange of a promise for money or the exchange of a promise for a promise. Many immigrants to the Americas signed indentures to get passage. Of the millions of contracts of indenture, I suspect that there was at least one that was based on a particular debt. So the answer to your question is yes. But the answer is immaterial to the purpose of this thread.
Posted by: Johnnie | August 15, 2009 at 07:53 AM
"Well, as God says, arbeit macht frei. Auf wiedersehen."
This is really a comparison that is a mismatch. The purpose of the slave labor camps of Hitler's Germany was to exterminate those groups whose lives were considered by the regime to be unworthy of living. The point here was not enslavement, but extermination as the final solution. Work does not make one free, but it does satisfy certain human needs. Slavery has never been "the right thing to do." I doubt that you can easily find a mainstream Christian that will affirm such a notion and certainly you will not find it within the pages of the bible. Just because our government has placed protections for criminals, in that they provide them defense lawyers, does not mean that they approve of the crimes those criminals allegedly, or possibly actually, commit. It simply means that they are afforded the treatment that affirms the dignity of that person as a human being and that is something that the Nazis in your example would never grant those they worked to death or gassed or shot in ditches of Poland. If you were a fly on the wall at the lakeside Wannsee conference, you would know this to be absolutely and irrefutably true. So, while I agree with you that slavery is a moral evil, I disagree with your claim that it compares in perfect parallel with what happened in the Third Reich. Apples aren't oranges.
Posted by: Louis Kuhelj | August 15, 2009 at 08:13 AM
I just wanted to thank Joe and Amy, and the rest of you for the discussion this is a subject that bothers me and I have spent a little time looking at. I have a Christian friend who is convinced that since the Bible doesn't condemn slavery, slavery can't be immoral, this slavery is morally acceptable. I've beaten my head against a wall using most of the arguments you have used and then just given up in frustration. However, it is a subject I am still interested in and I did see some new things in these posts to consider. I also really appreciated Joe's comments as they were the same (or better) challenges that I had in mind while reading. I have nothing to contribute, just wanted to sincerely thank you both.
Posted by: Douglas Westfall | August 15, 2009 at 11:07 AM
(Joh 8:32) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
(Joh 8:36) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
(Jas 1:25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
And so...
(Mat 10:28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(Luk 12:4) And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | August 15, 2009 at 11:34 AM
==I have a Christian friend who is convinced that since the Bible doesn't condemn slavery...==
The Word of God says that, even IF you are a slave in the physical, you don't have to be a slave in the spiritual. He says that physical confinement isn't your most pressing problem.
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | August 15, 2009 at 11:38 AM
The word, "slave," appears only once in KJV.
The word, "slaves," appears only once in KJV.
Slave
Jer_2:14 (A.V.), but not there found in the original. In Rev_18:13 the word “slaves” is the rendering of a Greek word meaning “bodies.” The Hebrew and Greek words for slave are usually rendered simply “servant,” “bondman,” or “bondservant.” Slavery as it existed under the Mosaic law has no modern parallel. That law did not originate but only regulated the already existing custom of slavery (Exo_21:20, Exo_21:21, Exo_21:26, Exo_21:27; Lev_25:44-46; Josh. 9:6-27). The gospel in its spirit and genius is hostile to slavery in every form, which under its influence is gradually disappearing from among men. -- Easton's Bible Dictionary
Slave. The institution of slavery was recognized, though not established, by the Mosaic law, with a view to mitigate its hardship and to secure to every man his ordinary rights. -- Smith's Bible Dictionary
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | August 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Prince,
Amy offered Deuteronomy 23:15-16 as if these verses showed the Bible regulating slavery among the Hebrews.
The purpose of these verses seems to me to be to undermine neighboring economies by offering their escaped slaves safe refuge.
The Emancipation Proclamation was motivated in part by the same motive.
Posted by: RonH | August 14, 2009 at 04:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Servant
na'ar, meshareth. In our sense, "a free, voluntary attendant", as Joshua of Moses (Exo_33:11; so 2Ki_4:12; 2Ki_4:43; 2Ki_5:20; 2Ki_6:15 margin "minister"; 2Sa_13:17-18; 1Ki_20:14-15). 'Ebed on the other hand is "a bondservant or slave". -- Fausset's Bible Dictionary
Not "slave," as we mean it.
In the Light of Christ, this verse now has a different application: Those who serve God, through Christ, are "free, voluntary attendants." After all, if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed; and Knowledge of the Him will set you free, and He will not return you to the Devil's enslavement. It is the Devil who enslaves, not Christ.
God does not condone what the Devil does. That's cuz God doesn't condone evil which proceeds out of darkness, and God did not create darkness.
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | August 15, 2009 at 12:57 PM
God didn't/doesn't condone darkness, either. That's why He spoke Light into the darkness.
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | August 15, 2009 at 01:49 PM
God aks, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" [Amos 3:3]
We can take the argument of those who say He does not condemn slavery, that, therefore, He condones slavery.
Well, twisting His view, we can say that He does NOT say that two NOT walking together cannot be agreed, and, so, according to that argument, we don't have-ta agree with Him to walk with Him.
Of course, that's mere, ridiculous, human reasoning, not His. I go with His, that you can walk with Him only if you agree with Him, and, if you receive His reasoning in love, with an open heart and teachable spirit, you will come to agree with Him.
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | August 15, 2009 at 02:08 PM
Sage S,
thanks for your thoughts. While I understand what you mean, i think you misunderstand the points of my inquiry to Joe. My simple questions to Joe were, what is evil and how does he demonstrate it specifically in the case of slavery? This he never answered.
Posted by: Chris Billups | August 15, 2009 at 07:31 PM
On their behalf Douglas, you are welcome!
Posted by: Jennifer Aniston | August 17, 2009 at 10:06 AM
Ron H..... What?
Posted by: Prince | August 17, 2009 at 01:43 PM
Chris,
Ah...so was there something Joe said to call into question his rationale for applying moral absolutes to Hebraic slavery? I think he was pretty explicit about "demonstrating it specifically in the case of slavery" (remember his repeated mention of beating slaves, owning the children of slaves, holding people captive against their will, etc?). Now about requiring him to prove evil generally - I think this is a tactic you ought to reconsider. If every time we say something is morally wrong we are required first to give a compelling ontology of evil, then we pretty much avoid the original issue and place unwarranted rhetorical burdens on everyone. Whether or not we can give a fully reasoned defense of the existence of evil, we can all make valid moral claims. We don't have to prove gravity to drive a car.
Posted by: Sage S | August 17, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Sage, i dont think calling my questions tactics is necessarily warranted. It is true that you dont need to prove gravity to drive a car, but you would need to define both gravity, car and drive before we could have an intelligible conversation about such. Joe was making broader claims about God and evil in his previous statements so i think it was completely apropos to ask him what exactly he meant. When one begins a conversation on evil, especially one knocking up against the notion of "God doing something wrong" why exactly is it inappropriate to ask the grounding question? Why would I accept a term for which no clear defintion and justification is given especially when given the nature of the conversation it's used ambiguously? I think joe's avoidance of the question in the previous post shows that when we actually seek to clarify these things, the implicit objection runs afoul.
Posted by: Chris | August 18, 2009 at 08:58 AM