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July 04, 2011

Comments

Good video. I constantly run into people (even Christians, like my wife) who will respond to comments of mine with "Don't jinx us!" I try to explain that my words have no power to do anything. But the concept of the jinx is so deep in our culture I can't overcome it.

knock on wood!

Your commentary on Proverbs 18:21 was a bit weak. What you say and how you say it does matter. Words aren't magic but they can be powerful. My verbal confession, as outlined Romans 10:9, proved to be life changing to me.

Mark:

Your verbal confession was powerful because of the God who responds to that commitment not because the words themselves possess any power.

Mark,

When you refer to Romans 10:9 are you suggesting that the verbal confession itself provided the new life within yourself (as in salvation) or are you saying the the verbal confession resulted in some persecution (or some other occurance not relating to salvation) which lead to a change within you?

If you are suggesting the former then I would strongly disagree. The verbal confession itself doesn't save anyone since people can be mute and still receive Christ as Lord and savior.

Additionally Paul makes it exceedingly clear in the previous chapters of Romans (Chapters 3 and 4 specifically) that no work we do (which is what verbal confession is) can save us or change us but only through faith in the saving work of Jesus can we receive salvation and experience new birth.

The following link provides what I believe to be a good explanation of this section of scripture:
http://www.gotquestions.org/public-confession.html

Oooh, good discussion. Obviously, God is the ultimate creative force, He spoke creation into existence. Do humans have a similar diminutive creative force? Evidently, with faith, they do, e.g. Matthew 17:20. This discussion also reminded me of Tolstoy's, The Death of Ivan Ilyich, it mattered when he uttered "Forgo." Alex, I don't think speaking is "work". [Maybe if you're a professional speaker or preacher, it is.] But I do believe, speaking (or moaning in Ilyich's case, or hand signing in a deaf-mute's case) as an outward expression of your internal belief is an important part of the conversion process. And whatever you all think of Dale Carnegie type training, a positive winsome manner, attitude and words works!

@Mark, we have to be careful with adding _anything_ to the Gospel, whether it is any kind of work or even "speaking," as you mention. Paul is clear that salvation is by grace through faith, not by works. If we say that speaking is a part of salvation, then it is not totally God's grace. But that goes against what Paul teaches. And if we must "speak" for salvation, that means that a paralyzed person who cannot move or speak or do anything would be exempt from salvation. We know that is not true because it is God's work that saves that person, not anything he does himself.

This is a great discussion, and it's awesome to see everyone being so polite! :)

There's the practical power of words, and then the star-wars, superstitious variety.

Here's an article that I think clears up things a bit: "Christian Witchcraft ?"

http://livingonhisword.blogspot.com/2008/08/christian-witchcraft.html

Speaking Word's Words:

I'm not sure my own words unattached to anything have any immediate impact on Reality's course.

Oddly, herein, I am instructed by Word-Himself to aline, or line up, or get in synch with, my own inner Trust, Direction, Push, Expression, with Him, with Word made Flesh.

And, when I do that, I then am moved, myself, not Reality, but me, into, or closer to, the Mind of Christ, the Mind of Word. And, in that, my reality, not Reality Itself, but my personal journey, begins to agree with Word's testimony. From there, it is, as it always is, all Him. His Reality juxtaposed to that Other Reality of Fallen or Old, etc.

There are Two Kingdoms, we are told. And, to which we begin to align ourselves "does have an impact" on our own reality, not those Two Kingdoms or Realities themselves, but our own journey within them or among them. To align myself with Word made Flesh is to agree with Him. I usually don't. He tells me I am White as snow. I know I am not. He knows I am. But, again, dear Sir, I know I am not. Very well then. What will my inner word, and my outer word, profess? "I am not as White as snow" or, perhaps, "I am as White as snow"? Herein lies the Bridge, the Walkway, of how this ties our two worlds together, the Old and the New, the Fallen and the Whole, the Dead and the Alive.

There is a Bridge, and nothing we "say" can "do" or "change" anything. The Change, the Impact, the Effect does not come by "saying" but, rather, but getting-in-line-with both with our internal Grunt, or Nudge, or Push, and, with time, the Body too tries to agree via the physical tongue. As we move into His Kingdom, "our" reality changes NOT b/c we have changed reality by our words, but b/c by our Aligning-Process we ourselves have begun to move over into HIS reality and OUT of our former reality. The Old, our Old, then begins to "change" into the New. Enter "Change".

"Dear God, I am a foul mess. Filthy."

"Child, you are as white as snow".

There are Two Kingdoms. Two Fathers. Two Words spoken. The Father of Lies. The Father of Truth.

We will speak one or the other.

The toungue (the heart) which can Profess the former, but not the Latter, cannot travel the Bridge and effect Change. The tongue (the heart) which pushes itself to agree with Word-Made-Flesh and speak both the former Word (yes, I sin) and the latter Word (yet, I am Clean) begins to morph, to cross a Bridge, out of the Old, into the New. And, we are told, that Word begins to then become Flesh. It Manifests. Change has come. His Love begins to become my New Real. Love becomes Flesh.


@Mark

Thanks for your response!

When Paul uses the word "work" what he means is any sort of action or deed which we can do - not necessarily things we get paid to do or things we do professionally but anything that we can "do" (ie verbs). These are considered to be "works".

I am in agreeance with John W's remarks on this issue and would strongly underline the need to understand that, as Ephesian 2:8-9 states: "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one could boast."

While I agree with you Mark that verbal confession does indeed emphasize the internal salvation of a person, I believe that the Bible teaches that it only serves to be, like you said, a sign of what has already occurred within the person - but nothing more. It's not the conversion process itself but only a result of the already completed conversion to Christ.

The reason I write this is because Mark, I care for you mate and I want you have a true and confident understanding of the saving grace that God provides to us so that "no one can boast".

Cheers,
Alex

I've always liked the phrase, "Abra Ca-pokus." I got that from Bugs Bunny. He also used this one: "Hocus Cadabra." He was a very clever wizard.

For the full effect, see "Transylvania 6-5000":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=670xWkmPUzc

@lovehimselfrescuedme: beautiful! Thanks

If you could separate and isolate the words from blessings, curses, speeches, or chants, and jumble them around, you would get gobblygook, thus, the words are "empty" and void of magical power. However, there is a concept called power of persuasion and that requires a lot of words.


I certainly agree with Greg in terms of the metaphysics people ascribe to words, but I won't be so cavalier as to say they have no power. Words create emotions (good and bad), spark ideas (good and bad), motivate to action - all elements of creative processes.

Saying "I'm going to die" may not kill you, but saying to a person "I wish you were dead" can hurt severly.

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