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August 08, 2011


I think everyone has difficulties similar to those that Greg mentioned. I know I do. But what is the more important endeavor, discovering what is true about reality or ridding myself of the emotional difficulties that reality presents me with?

"Dear Sir: Regarding your article 'What's Wrong with the World?' I am. Yours truly," — G.K. Chesterton

"Fairy tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." — G.K. Chesterton

I've wondered about this myself. We have a tendency to separate things in our minds by categorization that cannot be entirely separated. One thing is the difference between spiritual separation from God and the commission of discrete sins. Another is the difference between spirit and body.

The reason I say this is to preface my understanding of Original Sin (OS). Now, I concede that I may be wrong about this, but I hold it out as a viable option for thinking about OS. namely, that we are each born separated from God. That is, the world has not seen the fulfillment of the redemption won by Christ. We, who are born in this world, are born separated from God.

Now, it could be argued that this means that for parents who are saved, that their children will not be born separated from God since they are not separated from God. But while they are no longer spiritually separated from God, they remain yet physically separated as long as they live in this world. Therefore, their children born in this world are born physically and spiritually separated from God. Therefore, they will sin because there is nothing else they can do. Even if they do not discretely sin, their intents are blackened by separation from God. And so with all of us.

We are guilty precisely because we are separated from God (dead), not because we commit discreet sins. The sins follow the condition of death. This comports with Reformed theology where we are made spiritually alive by the power of the holy Spirit. At the resurrection, our physical bodies will follow the life of the spirit and will be glorified being redeemed to Christ also. Until then, we are prone to the fallen nature of our bodies and continue to commit discreet sins (albeit to a lesser degree because of the transformation of our minds).

(I’m dutch so excuse my english).

I think I kinda get the approach that God has. From Gods perspective it does not matter whether or not we are born in sin. In both cases God is able to see our heart and how we would be in any given circumstance. (fallen or not)

Like angels are in the presence of God, and are lost on account of there personal choices (like satan), so are we born in separation of God and judged by or personal choices also. The difference is that we have to choose for God, and the angels have to choose against God.

I think we lose sight of Gods almight too quickly in relation to this.. God is able to get the once that want to be with Him from both perspectives equally. (and respect there free will too)

I think that this is the true meaning of the text in the bible that says God does not see the outward things but sees the heart, and why Jesus says that what is not possible with people is possible with God (regarding salvation in the camel going through the eye of the needle story).

Same with eternal hell. God knows what we would be like in 1000 years from now. Or in eternity.
I know this might sound like predestination. But the way I see it we can make eternal choices that hold forever because we are convinced of the fundamental truth of that choice. In other words, we can be eternally convinced of something because we know its impossible to escape it.

If you are not convinced of the truth you are not able to stand in your choice. There will always be room for other ideas, depending on external factors. There is no eternal choice value outside the truth. But once convinced of the truth, why would I ever fight Jesus (God) when I am convinced that I can never win. This is the true fear of God that is a factor in our salvation.

Hope this makes sense.

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