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October 12, 2011


Jesus didn't say anything specifically about defenestration either, but I know he doesn't want me to throw you out of the window

I made that point to an 82 yr. old who has been in church his entire life and he looked at me like I was exploiting some loophole. It is simple and bulletproof: the Bible is the word of God, Jesus is God, therefore the Bible is the word of Jesus.

The "Jesus didn't say anything" sound bit is also used to justify abortion. My short-version response to that argument is this: Arguing from silence is a logical fallacy, Jesus inspired all scripture, He supported the Old Testament law to the last letter, the "red letters" weren't silent on these topics in the sense that they reiterated what marriage and murder were, He emphasized many other important issues that these liberal theologians completely ignore (Hell, his divinity, his exclusivity, etc.), He was equally "silent" on issues that these folks treat as having the utmost importance (capital punishment, war, welfare, universal health care, etc.), He didn't specifically mention child abuse and other obvious sins though that wouldn't justify them, and abortion and homosexual behavior simply weren't hot topics for 1st century Jews.

And Jesus did condemn both adultery and "sexual immorality" (porneia). This suggests two things: one, that God's standards for sexuality morality are broader than "don't commit adultery;" and two, that if Jesus as a believing Hebrew would have understood "porneia" to include homosexual acts, then we have to include that in our definition of sexual immorality.

Maybe not, but he DID talk about divorce and adultery and look where that one listens to it or they make "excuses" where it is okay as well. Everyone can skirt the issue and find "loopholes" to make things work for them..if not then all the Catholic Priest would be in prison instead of just moved from parish to parish to continue raping children with the popes blessing.

If I could vote up @Jeff Schultz's comment I would do so.

The last verse in the Book of John notes:

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written." (KJV)

I.E., John says his own record is not exhaustive, that there are many things said and done by Jesus that haven't been recorded; what is certain, though, is that His pattern, from the O.T. to the N.T is to call men to lead His church, give them Priesthood authority to do so, and then they speak His word, as He reveals it to them, from time to time. This includes all the warnings by the prophets regarding sexual immorality of any kind.

The Old Testament passages and Paul's writing on homosexuality are Jesus speaking. So the claim is just factually wrong: Jesus has spoken on the topic.

That the bible is inspired is not a fact; it is a claim of faith.

Regardless, the position you are arguing here isn't even a Reformed one. I would encourage anyone to read the freely available sermon from Martin Luther, "On How Christians Should Regard Moses."

The position he lays out in that sermon (and elsewhere in his writings) does not support the claims made above. The claims above are a later development within evangelicalism, not a direct descendant of the reformers view of sola scriptura

(this is even more evident in the writings of the Anabaptists and their view of Jesus' literal words in the Gospels and their authority relative to other biblical texts).

Jesus does define marriage specifically or I should say explicitly.

Jesus never said anything about driving drunk or computer hacking or ponzi schemes. I doubt His approval of those things though.

Jesus did not have to come out exactly with the view on homosexuality. Some of us have to learn to read between the lines. When He spoke on "divorce", what did He say to those who were testing Him? He elaborated on that from the beginning God said, Man shall leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife". Adam and Eve were a man and a woman. A "wife" is always and will be defined as a WOMAN married to a man. You can just read between the lines: A husband and wife is never, NEVER A MAN AND A MAN. That's common sense. So, even though Christ never came out and spoke exclusively on homosexuality, His view of the subject is very obvious in the way He dealt with the other sin-situations that he had to correct, but His ministry was focused on Him being the forgiver of sins and the One who was to died to free us from sin's bondage and the devil's hold. In the book of John and in the other accounts, there is a lot that Christ did and it's not recorded in the scriptures. John is very expressive about that. So, it's not that Christ didn't deal with what we know as explicit sins as homosexuality but the gospel accounts focused more upon what Christ's overall ministry was and that was to reconcile all to God, so let's not put the Savior of the world down in anyway.

I’ve found that many people who say, “Jesus never said anything about homosexuality,” really could care less what Jesus said about anything. Had he said something directly, he’d just be written off as being mistaken on the issue.

Again, not all, but many.

re: defenestration

This is the 2nd time I heard this word today, and I never heard it used before. Twilight Zone.

I definately second Damians thot, A WOMAN FOR A MAN and NOT a MAN FOR A MAN.WE really need to read between those lines.

Neill's spot on. To claim "{Jesus] never said a word about abortion or homosexuality" is a specious argument from silence! You don't "hear" about abortion or homosexuality from ultra orthodox Jews, because it's not even debatable. Ultra orthodoxy was the basis for "zero year" Jewish life.

It's sexual sin, just like adultery (hello? Newt Gingrich? Ted Kennedy?), promiscuity, etc. Jesus praised neither the Samaritan woman at the well (except for her truthfulness) nor the woman "taken in adultery". He didn't say "well, it's o.k. if you really *really* 'love' the person". No, Jesus said "go, and sin no more".

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