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« Craig, Law, and the Evil God | Main | Does Christianity Make Us Closed-minded? »

November 09, 2011


Another fine example of indoctrination of the youth.

Just glad they are indoctrinated with an accurate view of reality.

Local Atheist

"Another fine example of indoctrination of the youth."

This site is called "Stand to Reason". Could you please stand and give us a reason for your apparent assumption that all indoctrination is inherently bad for youth. We would like a bigger piece of your mind than the one your statement offers.

Unheralded gains?
Recent advances?

The failure of Initiative 26 in Mississippi is a harbinger of what you can expect as more people come to understand your view.

You can read here about Generational Differences on Abortion.

How does your view fare?


It seems like the data from your link support the point of Amy's post.


Sure, I see the data in the link that supports the point of Amy's post.

But how has the view illegal in all circumstances fared, if you don't pick the right group and the right interval?



"if you don't pick the right group and the right interval"

This is a perfect example of "It's not how much data you have, but what you do with it". Would you say that I am justified in being suspicious of a statement that points to some group and interval being RIGHT? When one starts to use such language, he is referring to some kind of standard that needs to be examined closely before justification for a particular stance can be made. Without it, we swim in a sea of ambiguity.


Not sure I know what you mean or that you know what I mean. (Hint: what I'm saying is 100% independent of the merits of the case.)

According to the poll, how has the view that abortion should be illegal in all circumstances fared since the early 1970's?

Looking at just the subgroup aged 18-29 AND assuming the current trend continues, how long before you have a majority of them saying illegal in all circumstances.

And, looking at the population as a whole, has the view made any progress?



Just regarding the science of polling, if you add “illegal in all circumstances” to anything – people are likely to reject it. Especially 18-29 year olds. Polling is tricky business. Also, ‘the life of the mother’ would be in jeopardy under that wording.

If that’s your glimmer of pro-abortion hope, then by all means, dig in and have a party.

I agree with KWM the question is loaded.

It is exciting the strides Millennials making. They appear excited for life and active. So many of them are seeking pro-life internships and they want to be involved in the legal arena. I have great expectations for this generation.

The OP brought up polls. You didn't complain about them then.

The question may not be perfect, but trends should not be created or destroyed by less-than-perfect questions.

Ok here is a chart of poll results. You have to click something like "Click here to start the download". I promise this is just a harmless pdf. The horizontal axis is time.

My question to you is: Which lines show trends?

If you are inclined to answer, something like...

The RED line increases from left to right
...would be great.



"The question may not be perfect, but trends should not be created or destroyed by less-than-perfect questions."

"less-than-perfect" <> "loaded"
The difference is that "loaded" means that it is intended to promote a particular point of view. Like loaded dice it can only give one result. That's called cheating. You are free to call questions that reduce to cheating as less then perfect, but I prefer to call them cheating. It's a less politically correct and more bluntly accurate way of putting it.


If this poll question 'can only give one result' why do some people answer it one way and others answer it a different way?

No big deal here: You mean to say the question gives a biased result. By the way, that is also what loaded dice do.

Look, we all know who answers 'illegal in all circumstances'. It's some of those that would vote for the MS personhood law. The rest of these voters would answer 'illegal in almost all circumstances'.

Those who answer 'illegal in all circumstances' further divide into 2 subgroups. Some have forgotten that pregnancy can kill. The rest would let a woman die rather than let her have a life-saving abortion.

The bias you are complaining about is comes from those who would change their answer, when reminded that pregnancy can kill, to 'illegal in all but a few circumstances'.

Even with this defect, the question still identifies people with a certain view and we know what that view is.

And again, even with the bias, the lack of a trend associated with the question tells us the view is making no progress.

You can call the question loaded if you want. But, if you leave it that, then you have your head in the sand.

Now, do you see any trend(s) in my chart?


Anybody see trend(s) in my chart?


There is very little one can say to someone who is firmly convinced that numbers tell the whole story. I know from experience that they don't. I've seen all kinds of massive mistakes made by believing otherwise with colossally disastrous consequences to victims of policies based on this philosophy. It destroys human lives and should be abandoned to preserve them.

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