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« Challenge: We Don’t Have Those Original "Inerrant" Manuscripts | Main | Challenge Response: We Don’t Have Those Original "Inerrant" Manuscripts »

July 01, 2015

Comments

'The government is prevented from controlling churches by the Constitution.' Ms Hall, we've seen, at least in the past decade or so, how much our government seems to adhere to the restrictions placed on it by the Constitution. In the case of religious belief, we've had plenty of examples of the government (particularly the judicial branch) ignoring or bypassing the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment, as well as nullifying the votes of the people of 31 states regarding SSM.

As much as I pray the government doesn't continue on its current trajectory, I think Christians (in particular, but any orthodox believers) need to stop depending on our 'kings and princes' to protect us and prepare ourselves for the coming storm.

How about the same tax treatment as other nonprofits?

I having been a giving Christian almost all my life. I am burnt out now from the misuse of funds, extravagant salaries, and large kingdoms men build in the name of Christ, ( I acknowledge sincere hearts, but the business model is all to evident and they are often transparent that is so) that makes them truly Power brokers in the name of Christ. When I say this I know there are many precious, servant hearted ministers who give of themselves continuouslly and are not manipulator so. I have seen more history with the first and the pattern continues from pastor to pastor.
I have often said if more Evangelical churches focused on making a difference in the community instead of building building so they can grow we would influence our culture more. Locally the Church of Christ has an orphanage, nursing home (that everyone wants their loved one to have opportunity to be in if needed) and assisted living apartments. We are a small town in Alabama of 60k population and I admire the care they provide for our community.

If there is truly a separation of Church and State, why should the State profit from the activities of the Church?

That said, if there is a movement to rethink tax exemption of churches due to public sentiment, why not list the organization that actively receive money from the government and have public sentiment decide? Do the vast majority of Americans support government giving money to Planned Parenthood, even if they do not object to their operation. Just because someone does not object to something does not mean they want to actively fund it.

If there is truly a separation of Church and State, why should the State profit from the activities of the Church?

If there is truly a separation of Church and State, then why aren't Churches treated like other nonprofits?

If you doubt the value churches bring to communities, you need only look at the aftermath of recent tragic events in Baltimore and Charleston. What made the difference between rioting and mass hymn singing?

One involved murder by police officers, agents of the state, and the other was a lone white supremacist nutter who dropped out of high school? There were churches in Baltimore, too.

Of course there were, but the murders in Charleston centered on a church. They were the ones most squarely affected, and their response set the tone and rippled out to the whole community—not only to the other churches, who joined in, but many others.

If there is truly a separation of Church and State, then why aren't Churches treated like other nonprofits?
Because non-profit institutions are not constitutionally protected. Religions are.

Most non-profits I have been involved with are HIGHLY regulated. Of course, I am in Canada and under another set of rules but we have federal legislation describing how we operate.

There ain't no separation of non-profit and state.

That said, your IRS hasn't got the greatest reputation when it comes to fairly treating certain types of non-profits.

Making the books open, so we know a church is not a mode of tax evasion, is neither establishment nor infringement.

Lot's of church money effectively tax evasion.

Little of it is actual charity. 10% maybe?

Lots of churches are primarily tax-free clubs established for the benefit of the leaders and members.

What has these facilities have to do with the practice of religion?

100 acres

2 lakes, approx. 5 acres

Water recreation area:

Junior Olympic Pool (50 meters)

Zero-Entry swimming pool

Splash Pad

Waterfall with Splash Pool

200 Meter Track and Field

Two Baseball Fields, convertible to three soccer fields

Full Ropes Course

Picnic Pavilion

Bathhouse

Bathouse? Hmm.

So, separation of Church and State means the State regulates religion and civil servants decide what is a legitimate religious expense?

As I observed, there is not a good track record of fairly dealing with any non-profit that doesn't align with the Obama administration.

The argument assumes that the government has an inalienable right to all money, and can decide how much that anyone is allowed to retain.

civil servants decide what is a legitimate religious expense?
. According to law.

But perhaps the bigger benefit to open books is that donors get to know where their money goes.

"It’s in our best interest to prevent our limited government from taking money away"

Our limited government! Surely, you didn't mean that about our government in DC :)

Honest question: how is taxation for churches different from other non-profits?

So in short this is all about, "If you don't support gay marriage, we'll do everything we can to bring you down"? I'm not as versed as many of you, but with everything going on, it seems a new and different type of persecution is about to begin. If the article in Time didn't have gay marriage in it, and only referenced folks like Creflo Dollar, I guess I could see their point to an extent. It's odd to me that such a small percentage of the population who are gay have this much power.

". According to law. "

You seem a bit naïve.

Between Lerner at the IRS, and Clinton running her own private email sever to avoid freedom of Information requests, do you honestly believe, outside of rhetorical effect, that every action by the government is fair and legal?

Much easier to say there is a separation of church and state, and that removes the IRS's authority as it is an agent of the state.

Honest question: how is taxation for churches different from other non-profits?

Here are a few differences. Don't take my word for it. Google.

For one thing, churches don't have to submit a Form 990.

What's that?

Here's one so you can get an idea.

So, what do they do with all that money?

There is the parsonage exemption.

And, churches can 'elect' a Social Security/Medicare exemption.

(Google IRS Form 8274 to get your copy!)

That's what I could find in a few minutes - all Federal.

States, counties, and municipalities may have their own modes of special treatment.

Somewhere, someone may have collected a complete or nearly complete answer.

Consider the case of Scientology.

do you honestly believe, outside of rhetorical effect, that every action by the government is fair and legal?
No more than you think that every action taken by a civil servant is his personal anti-Christian choice.

"No more than you think that every action taken by a civil servant is his personal anti-Christian choice."

I don't.

Just anything that doesn't fit the Obama agenda seems to have a target on it.

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