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September 15, 2015

Comments

Thanks, Alan Shlemon, for this article! It seems clear to me that this question ("Can and does sexual orientation change?") is a critical link in the chain of arguments that supports today's dominant theory about homosexuality.

It's remarkable how much disagreement there is on this issue on the pro-LGBT-laws side, and how the "No"s are leading the charge even as the "Yes"s follow behind without too much qualm, pretty much benefitting from the progress in policy.

The big question is whether gays are born or made gay. Even if born gay most overlook the spiritual dimension that could produce results not detected in a person's DNA. So even those who affirm there is no "scientific" proof for a person's gayness, might consider a spiritual reason for it. We know Paul says God gave some over to homosexuality because of idolatry and America is certainly guilty of that.

I'm Not seeing much idol worship. Maybe some Hindu folks. So I think that's off the judgement list.

A same-sex "orientation" can lead to temptation and lust, just as an opposite-sex "orientation" can. For a "straight" person, the solution to lust is not to give in to lust — nor is it to rid oneself of all sexual attraction altogether.

Rather, with any sexual desire, our response is to rely on God to help us *steward* our sexuality in a way that honors God. If we're single, we must abstain from sexual activity altogether. If we are married, we must abstain from sexual activity *except* with our opposite-sex spouse as a married person. Why? Because the image of God is reflected best when two equal but diverse parts come together as one in absolute commitment and surrender.

When Exodus was around, the question many people were asking was, "Can a gay person become straight?" I honestly think this is the wrong question to ask. Our solution to address sin in Christianity has NEVER been to rid ourselves 100% of temptation. Not even Jesus did this. Of course, we do not *lead* ourselves into temptation by putting ourselves in weak situations and mindsets. Some temptation is preventable and, like an alcoholism recovery, can be reduced over time. This is worthy of pursuit.

But I think we can offer much freedom to a friend who experiences same-sex attraction by letting him know he is not freak or a failure for still being tempted by homosexual lust.

Nor is a person a failure for lacking attraction to the opposite sex. This attraction can grow over time, just as same-sex attraction can decrease. But we must refrain from telling our brothers and sisters who struggle with same-sex attraction that they are less of a Christian because they don't lust in the same way we do, or because they are seriously considering a life without marriage.

As Christians, we must begin to acquire the mindset that a same-sex attracted person may very well be our brother or sister in Christ who is secretly dealing with same-sex attraction alone. (S)he may be a *potential* brother or sister in Christ, who would gladly surrender his/her attractions to Jesus if we could just show him/her how the gospel really IS good news to them because they get to spend the rest of their life with Jesus!

Either way, our same-sex attracted friends are people whom Jesus does not define or limit because of their temptations — each one is someone who is "fearfully and wonderfully made" — and who can be set free from the bondage of every sin and curse and condemnation of man by the precious blood of Christ.

We're all in this freedom thing together... let's be patient with one another, bearing with one another in love.

@ Goat Head 5;

It is hard to see but Scripture calls covetousness (greed) idolatry.

“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:” (Colossians 3:5)


Saying that change is possible is not evidence that a particular 'therapy' is effective - whatever it's for.

Some people had cancer. Now they're in remission. (Change is possible.) So make this quack therapy legal (whether those people even HAD the quack therapy.

That's not how it works.

Therapies are supposed to be safe and effective.
Or, they are not supposed to be practiced.

Furthermore, the burden is on the proponent of the therapy to show evidence that the therapy is safe and effective.

Well said. I wondered the same thing when I heard this ministry closed. The AA comparison was a good one. Just because one (or many) people don't have victory over XYZ sin does not mean that no one can ever have victory over it and that all ministries that are geared toward helping such people should be closed. That doesn't even make sense on a logical level.

I do think we as Christians need to stop using the term "sexual orientation". The term itself means we accept the false premise that people are born that way. We're already setting people up for defeat because they are self-identifying in this manner. "This is what I AM."

Aside from the fact that there's no scientific evidence that homosexuals are born that way, the Bible knows of no such thing either.

We all have a SINFUL orientation. But especially once we are born again, our sin no longer defines us.

I have known several homosexuals who went through reparative therapy, and not one of them experienced a permanent change. The one or two "cured" homosexuals I have heard speak left me unconvinced. Sure, there can be experimentation which is ultimately discovered to be repulsive to the experimenter, but they in fact were never homosexual by nature. Homosexuals born with that nature cannot change, IMO. And I do believe most avowed homosexuals are, by nature, created that way.

Ever since the debate surfaced I considered the possibility that some people are spiritually predisposed to sin by God's appointment.

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Jude 4)

“And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them (Idol/money worshipers as a culture) over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;” (Romans 1:28)

So, even though they might be spiritually predisposed to this particular sin, it doesn't mean they have any more of an excuse than anyone predisposed to any other sin, but only a greater obligation to seek repentance.

@ Perry Shields

"Homosexuals born with that nature cannot change, IMO. And I do believe most avowed homosexuals are, by nature, created that way."

You are free to believe whatever you want. But you've provided zero evidence for that belief.

There is zero evidence homosexuals are "born that way". That's why there are former homosexuals. (Which, of course, are completely ignored and told they were never really homosexuals to begin with.)


There is no reliable scientific data to show that people are born gay..that is a politically correct mantra. we are born with a sinful nature which makes us potentially vulnerable to all kinds of proclivities. Some even say God created people to be gay, which is just a slap in the face. Why is it that men are not made to have sex with men and women are not made to have sex with women? The creative genius of God! No, our sexual perversions and excesses are a pit, a La Brea tar pit! And Jesus died to get us all out of that! He takes us where we are, but loves us too much to leave any of us in our sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual..His grace is enough no matter what our preferences are.

Why should we change? Your acting like we are a disease I don't see you telling heterosexuals too overcome there opposite sex attractions why? Because you yourself are heterosexual and you don't want to be anything but straight and you know you cannot change your sexual orientation!

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