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May 20, 2016

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Fine. It's not that there are more than two sexes, but it's just that not everyone falls clearly into one of the two sexes. We can say that male and female are not strictly binary categories with a sharp black-and-white distinction. Instead, there's a vague borderline area where a few people don't clearly fit into one sex or the other.

Maybe this is indeed a kind of defect, but in that case, it's still perverse and cruel for Christians to make life hard for intersex people. Just leave them alone.

John,

How are Christians making life hard for intersex people?

Most obviously, by passing laws telling them which bathrooms they have to use. Or doing all kinds of protests and boycotts of Target, when that store tried to offer just a little bit of support and understanding. Or by confusing the various issues surrounding intersex and homosexuality and telling these people that they're sinners who will burn in hell for eternity. You know, the whole thing about public shaming and bullying. It's like we've learned nothing since "The Scarlet Letter."

John,

Most obviously, by passing laws telling them which bathrooms they have to use.

Christians haven't told intersex people which bathroom to use. You're conflating intersex with transgender, but the two are not equivalent.

Or doing all kinds of protests and boycotts of Target, when that store tried to offer just a little bit of support and understanding.

That was about people having access to bathrooms based solely on their claims of gender. It wasn't about intersex people. And the risk and dangers of Target's policy outwiegh the very small (and even inconsequential) support for transgender ideology.

As a man, I'm not allowed to walk into women's locker rooms. I've never been harmed by that fact and that fact doesn't make life difficult for me. When someone who identifies as transgender claims that having to use the locker room of their biological sex harms them or provides significant hardship to them they are making a ridiculous assertion (unless of course the person who identifies as transgender is physically indistinguishable from the sex they identify as). Trans people aren't harmed by having them use the locker room of their biological sex. Trans people's lives are not made significantly more difficult by having to use the locker room of their biological sex. This is part of the false victimhood narrative. The only exception to this is trans people who have undergone extensive surgery and hormone treatment, such that it wouldn't be immediately obvious that the person is transgendered. But this is a very small number of transgender persons since the cost of surgery and the constant hormone treatment is prohibitively expensive for most.

Or by confusing the various issues surrounding intersex and homosexuality

You yourself are confusing the issues surrounding intersex and transgenderism.

telling these people that they're sinners who will burn in hell for eternity.

This objection is prejudicial. If it is the case that they are sinners who will burn in hell for eternity, unless they repent, then it's not making life hard or causing undue harm to point out that fact. On the contrary, your own attempt to tell them that they are not in danger of hell is itself harmful if you're wrong.

You know, the whole thing about public shaming and bullying.

This is part of the false narrative. No one here or associated with this website is bulling or engaging in public shaming. On the contrary, the leftists are the ones who are bullying Christians and trying to publicly shame them for their beliefs.

Some further thoughts on this:

You know, the whole thing about public shaming and bullying.

This a vague charge. What specific acts of bullying and public shaming do you have in mind, that would not already be condemned by Christians? If you can point to a specific instance of an intersexed person being bullied then you should know that Christians will already agree with you that bullying is inappropriate. So it's disingenuous to come to this website and tell us to stop making life difficult for intersex people (which you think is equivalent to trans), by which you mean stop bullying intersex people.

Now perhaps you will want to say that laws like North Carolina's HB2 are instances of bullying. But that's incorrect. Laws which say that a person has to use the bathroom of their biological sex are not bullying. They have a rational basis. Are they instances of public shaming? A man in drag may feel ashamed to use the men's locker room, but that's a situation created specifically by the behavior of the transgendered person and they can easily avoid that sense of shame by simply not going out in drag.

You may want to say that transgendered persons feel more comfortable in drag. In that case, it's up to the transgender person to choose which he would prefer: to feel comfortable in women's clothing or to feel unashamed while using the restroom of his biological sex. It's not the responsibility of three hundred plus million people in America to cater to the comforts of .03% of people by creating sweeping laws which put millions more women at risk and uncomfortableness.

The idea that a transgendered person needs to be dressed a certain way to feel comfortable (e.g., Caitlyn Jenner needs to be wearing a dress and wig) makes no sense given the transgendered/feminist narrative about sexist stereotypes and fictional social practices of what it means to be a man or woman. So not only is the complaint trivial, but it runs against the grain of their own narrative.

John,

(Christians) pass laws telling them which bathrooms they have to use.

Funny. I always thought elected officials pass laws.

I know of non-Christians that don’t like the idea of people being able to use whichever bathroom they choose. What about them? Have you given one second of thought around that?

Final question, John:

Let’s say a 10 year old girl has to be in the bathroom/shower with a transgendered girl that has a penis. The girl really wants to be accepting and tolerant, but cannot help feeling very uncomfortable. The girl feels shame for her unwelcome thoughts. Is this collateral damage for the greater good?

Does the 10 old girl need to get over her uncomfortableness around penises?

John?

John is gone. Makes sense.

What is usually always missing from conversations like this are the spiritual factors. To wit, the fact that the human race can be physically, mentally, and even socially flawed in many ways. If we take the Bible for truth, then we understand that God never originally intended man and woman to be anything but perfect in their physical and mental make-up as originally designed. But when they fell, or rather sinned against God and His one forbidden commandment, God was forced to curse the earth. Part of that curse included a different kind of life. With the perfect nature of creation now flawed by sin, certain abnormalities were sure to manifest. The degradation of the human race by some who would disobey God's forthcoming commandments was inevitable. Throughout the centuries, we have seen humans acting like, and even wanting, lately, to become animals. God gave laws for living and many served to keep the human healthy and safe from the environment that was also cursed. We may not be able to do much about flawed birth results that occur on a more frequent basis. But we can offer mercy, grace, and loving understanding to those who suffer such birth defects. The Christian society should never judge these souls as unworthy of life, liberty, and the pursuit of reasonable happiness. Yet, we also become a flawed government if we choose to create laws that elevate the defective person above the more or less normal person with regard to sexual operational standards. God's plan was always man and women and never a mixture of the two.

Hi Make fascism Great Again.
I love your eloquent and thoughtful and clear response to John. May I vut and paste it on a facebook discussion I am having?

John, you said, "Most obviously, by passing laws telling them which bathrooms they have to use."

Those laws are already on the books, and have been for centuries. Why do you phrase your question like Christians are trying to impose something?

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