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May 10, 2016

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This is why I believe we should be politically neutral not taking party sides.

Dave,

Christians should be ambassadors for Christ = don’t vote

Don’t see the logic there.

@KWM,

“..the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, Gives it to whomever He will, And sets over it the lowest of men.’” (Daniel 4:17)

Voting doesn't matter. Taking political sides alienates the people we should be trying to reach....and makes us look as bad as the politicians we support.

Dave,

How in the world did you get, don’t vote from that verse?

Voting doesn't matter.

Then why be against it if it doesn’t matter?

Taking political sides alienates the people we should be trying to reach....and makes us look as bad as the politicians we support.

Where's the evidence of that? I think it looks bad taking your position.

And if that’s true (and it is) then it’s also near certain that advocating the abstaining of having a say in how your community, state, and country is run would alienate lots of other thinking individuals as well.

Thanks for the reminder. One thing about being an ambassador is that there is no off duty time. We don't get vacations from being representatives of our King.

@KWM:

>>"Where's the evidence of that? I think it looks bad taking your position."

Does this suggest that you feel alienated from me for holding this politically neutral view? Personally, I think it looks bad when "Christians" favor one group over another when Jesus treats all equally.

I know from experience the political right alienates the political left visa versa.

Dave,

When being an ambassador for Christ and sharing the Gospel, when do you drop the news to the person that becoming a Christian involves giving up their voice in how their community is run?

Do you tell them on the front end?

Wouldn’t that alienate the very people you’re trying to reach?

Yes. Of course it would.

Does this suggest that you feel alienated from me for holding this politically neutral view?
I don’t care what you do personally, but if you’re out there telling people they need to give up their voice for Christ, then yes – that’s a problem.

Let’s bury the idea that you’re politically neutral, you have political thoughts, namely that people ought to abstain from politics.

If someone tells someone else they ought not vote, that is inherently political.

Finally, you post a verse from Daniel to support this view - you have not one shred of Biblical support.

@KWM;

Repentance takes care of itself through conviction, so possibly in time a new convert will realize that catering to the right wing turns left wingers off (visa versa) and makes his or her role in recommending Christ more difficult.

It's a matter of "skill" in knowing how to fish.

Dave,

Repentance takes care of itself through conviction

Apparently you think not if you vote in accordance with your moral convictions or want a say in how your community is run.

No support.

@KWM;

Not voting is not a sin. But if you alienate one group of people by favoring another it is. Respect of persons?

Also, where did Jesus or the early church meddle with politics?

Dave,

Not voting is not a sin.

Who said it was?

Again, you have no support that Christians should give up their voice in how their community is run.

By the way,

so possibly in time a new convert will realize that catering to the right wing turns left wingers off (visa versa)

In time? Why not be forthright about this? Does this “skill” in knowing how to fish entail withholding this truth?

Still no support.

@KWM;>>"Why not be forthright about this?"

Please, be forthright and tell me what you would tell someone you are trying to reach for Christ-mixing politics into the Gospel. I'm really curious about how you would preach a right wing or left wing gospel...

Dave,

You're making a claim:

Ambassadors for Christ ought not vote because it alienates people.

In fact, the above must be so important to you, it's the first thing you comment on and must be one of the first things that comes to mind. The OP wasn't political at all (who is focused on politics here?).

So far:

1. You offered no Biblical support for this except the Daniel verse that says no such thing.

2. You have not addressed that telling someone that being a Christian means foregoing their interest and voice in how their community is run can alienate people.

3. You have not addressed the conflict that advocating the abstaining of voting is in itself political.

4. You have not explained how you communicate this to those you are trying to reach except to say that you don’t mention it – that it’s best to withhold this from them. You wrote:

It’s a matter of “skill” in knowing how to fish

As if a little deception is part of that skill.

Finally, in a very telling quasi-question (one that really communicates your misunderstanding) you ask:

I'm really curious about how you would preach a right wing or left wing gospel...

You don't. You preach the gospel. Period. You trust and totally submit to God’s plan to use your words for His purposes.


@KWM: Topic = We're Meant to Represent our King in This Foreign Land.

Is Jesus a Republican? Is he a Democrat? Or an Independent?

Many "Christians" today mix politics with religion and give a false representation of Christ.

So according to the topic, how do we best represent Christ as in a foreign if not by remaining politically neutral?

@KWM:

>>1. You offered no Biblical support for this except the Daniel verse that says no such thing.

> If the Most High places who he wants into office, will it change the outcome if you or a million people do not vote?

>>2. You have not addressed that telling someone that being a Christian means foregoing their interest and voice in how their community is run can alienate people.

>If you want to vote for new sidewalks please do. I am speaking of partisan politics dividing people and alienating them from each other. Jesus avoided entanglements with the State saying his Kingdom is not of this world. Should we become entangled in things he refused to become part of?

>>3. You have not addressed the conflict that advocating the abstaining of voting is in itself political.

>how can it not be political on a Party, State or National level? Go ahead, align yourself with a politician that is against a certain group and then try to tell them about Christ? Would trying that actually make sense to you???

>>4. You have not explained how you communicate this to those you are trying to reach except to say that you don’t mention it – that it’s best to withhold this from them. You wrote: It’s a matter of “skill” in knowing how to fish As if a little deception is part of that skill.

>>where is the deception if I'm neutral and don't preach politics?

Dave,

If you want to vote for new sidewalks please do.

Thanks for your permission, Dave.

What if another group in the neighborhood doesn’t want the sidewalks?

Is Jesus a Republican? Is he a Democrat? Or an Independent?

Sigh... You seem to think that because I value my right to vote, that I must inherently have a strong belief about God’s party affiliation and peddle my political beliefs when communicating the gospel. That’s your assumption about me. That must be your assumption about any Christian that values their right to vote. That's an uncharitable view of a lot of Christians for someone concerned about alienation. I'm sorry, not only is it uncharitable, but it's stupid.

You have not provided any support at all just emotional pleas about personal experience and alienation.

If you don’t want to vote, don’t vote.

Just don’t insult me by telling me that my voting or holding political beliefs harms my ability to evangelize.

@KWM:

There is a lot of really bitter hatred between political groups today. They literally hate each other with some calling for revolt. No?

If I drag Jesus into my carnal mindset as a ___________ (fill in the blank with anything but "Christian"), I am no longer identified with Christ, but he becomes identified with my petty political biases. So I cut off any chances of representing him to those who despise me for those biases.

Sidewalks are not an issue. But voting as a "Christian" for someone evil (unregenerate) who can have devastating effects on people's lives is the issue.

Dave,

It appears you are attempting to "have your cake and eat it too".....

You say, "But voting as a "Christian" for someone evil (unregenerate) who can have devastating effects on people's lives is the issue."

Didn't you earlier say that God determines the outcome of all elections? So how could our vote have "devastating" effects"? How would it matter at all?

Goat Head 5

@GH5; >>"Didn't you earlier say that God determines the outcome of all elections? So how could our vote have "devastating" effects"? How would it matter at all?"

This is true, but I believe God weighs America's people by how they vote. He also installs wicked rulers as punishment as in Old Testament times with wicked Israel.

If I identify with someone other than Christ, I misrepresent Christ especially to those who find my political stance offensive.

I believe many Palestinian Christians and others suffer as a result of "Americanised Christians" who advocate hostility towards other nations for non-Christian reasons.

Dave,

Thanks for the reply.

This is interesting.

What do you think are proper reasons for us to be hostile toward another nation?

Goat Head 5

@GH5; >>"What do you think are proper reasons for us to be hostile toward another nation?"

As Christians we are to follow peace with all and bless and love enemies.

Dave,

"He also installs wicked rulers as punishment as in Old Testament times with wicked Israel."

Again, interesting. What do you think the folks in Russia did to deserve Stalin?

Wonder what Rome did to deserve Nero?

Wonder why God saddled us with President Obama?

I wonder why God had MLK assassinated?

I wonder why He had all those Jews killed in the 1940s?

Lots of questions. I'm assuming you consider God perfectly just and all these folks deserving of their gruesome deaths. And don't give me that tripe about "Everyone deserves a gruesome death". You know in your heart they don't.

@GH5;

I have two answers. One is that not all suffering and death is punishment for wickedness. But all except Christ deserve any bad that comes their way. Paul says death as the wage of sin effects infants who never consciously sin - based on Adam's imputed sin.

God ultimately kills everyone and would not be good if he did not. Some are blessed with severe trials and even loss of life showing full proof of their integrity. Others waste away with little or nothing to show for life.

Dave,

"As Christians we are to follow peace with all and bless and love enemies."

As a Nation, is there any place for self defense in your view? Don't we need to be a little hostile towards those Nations who attack us and our interests?

Dave,

After a little reflection, I want those in our Nation, both Christian and non Christian to be extremely hostile to those who attack us.

I don't think Jesus taught pacifism.

@GH5; >>"I want those in our Nation, both Christian and non Christian to be extremely hostile to those who attack us."

Any scripture to support this? Just a thought while you are looking up scripture.

What if a nation picks a fight and is attacked because of it?

Dave,

Scriptural support for non pacifism?

The entire Biblical history of the nation of Israel, for starters.

Abraham rescuing Lot.

Etc. etc.

@GH5; >>"Scriptural support for non pacifism?"

The term pacifist is too broad, so I didn't respond to it. I responded to your saying; "I want those in our Nation, both Christian and non Christian to be extremely hostile to those who attack us."

On the cross Jesus did away with the Old Covenant and began the New. So his plan changed from the war based into the peace based ethic of the New Testament.

His plan for the church changed drastically when he said "my kingdom is not of this world". Then following it up by saying if it was, his followers would fight.

On the other hand he tells us to love our enemies and to remain separate from the world, not assuming their ways.

Also, if Jesus' kingdom is not of this world, and all nations are Satanic, should we defend them when God uses war to punish them?

Do we defend abortion, homosexuality, perverts in with your wife or daughter while they heed nature's call? Preemptive strikes against innocent people based on lies???? And the list is far longer if you consider the treatment of __________ Fill in the blank?

A good run of posts in this one.

I have always thought of politics as "a mad dash towards the temporary solution."

And in the scope of the title of this article "We Were Meant to Represent our King in this Foreign Land," it deals with obligations to Christ and President. Devotion to Christ. Respect to President.

It deals with those forces which shape our dash to the temporary solution. Conservatism: working with time-honored principles which work. A concern for human failing which recognizes no political system is ever perfect. Using constitutional checks and balances to guarantee liberty.

Liberalism: looking forward to creating a better world. A hope for human achievement to garner the blessings of liberty to create a better society where equality guarantees a constant progression from better to better.

Q: Was Prohibition progress, or was its repeal progress? Or is progress a series of circular "temporary solutions" leading us back to square one? And when do we acknowledge that one of our progresses was an "oopsie"?

Looks like Dave can't even hide his politics in a thread such as this. : )

Not surprised.

"Politically neutral". What a joke.

@KWM;>>""Politically neutral". What a joke."

So you are calling me a liar?

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